moving... what to do?

[Sharlees rattakisses]

I don't know what to do. :sad3: well, I have some questions for both of you, regardless.

chelle,
1) do you plan on adopting all 5 of them permanently, or just fostering them until you can find homes? if fostering, would you make sure to find them a home together?
2) would you be ok if I just 'loaned' you the CN, perhaps indefinitely, but perhaps only for a year or two--and if the rats are still alive when/if I return, would you be ok returning them to me (along with the CN)?

sharlee,
1) would he be with just his mom and sisters, or mom and sisters + kenny?
2) what if he just doesn't get along with someone? (how many females are there? I understand males and females generally get along, but I don't want him ganged-up against)

while I do think Tofu would be very happy (once he adjusted) in a group of females, I do wonder if the stress is worth it. though perhaps he can take it, he's pretty outgoing... if you'd asked for Poppy, on the other hand, I'd say no, haha. but Tofu... I really don't know, perhaps you'd be able to give him a lot of one-on-one time, I mean I saw how well-fed Milky was after a visit with you haha, so I'll really just... have to think about it.

The choice is up to you.
Tofu can be safely introduced into the group slowly with lots of group play times.
Tofu will be neutered as Kenny was and that makes the boys more mellow.
He also would be well loved and cared for just like my other ratties.
Everyone has there own opinions on this and that's okay.
With all the ratties I have had there have never been been any injuries beyond a few scratches.
I had a mixed cage with my oldies with 7 boys and 6 girlies and they lived nicely together.
It's all about patience.
Let me know. :cuddle:
Kenny and Olive are on my lap and Kenny is boggling like crazy!!
He is one happy fellow. :lol:

 

[lizmo1221]

For the record, I agree with Chelle. Although they may not all be blood relatives, Tofu considers his group now his family much more than he does his biological mom and sisters. His mom and sisters are just strange rats to him. I think its unfair to put him through the stress of moving homes, leaving his current group/family, getting a neuter, living alone for a few weeks, and then a full intro when he could just stay with his group and just go through the stress of moving houses. The stress of moving will be lessened as well since he will have his group to "lean on" so to speak. Not to mention the unnecessary risk of an operation and anesthesia.

Chelle is an amazing home, especially since she can take all of them. I say go with her

 

[xxchelle]

I don't know what to do. :sad3: well, I have some questions for both of you, regardless.

chelle,
1) do you plan on adopting all 5 of them permanently, or just fostering them until you can find homes? if fostering, would you make sure to find them a home together?
2) would you be ok if I just 'loaned' you the CN, perhaps indefinitely, but perhaps only for a year or two--and if the rats are still alive when/if I return, would you be ok returning them to me (along with the CN)?

First off, I have no doubt he would eventually get along with other rats - but as I said I just don't see the point in taking ONE brother away from his family to put him with completely new rats (he doesn't know his mother from any other female rat - his family is who he's living with). I suppose I'm one of the only ones with this view - I guess more people think it's okay to take one brother away from the other two and his two friends he's always lived with and got along with, to then put him with completely strange rats.

Lily, I will do whatever you prefer with regards to adoption. If all five come to me, I will 100% for sure keep Milky and Strider until they pass (I don't like to adopt out rats who are older). Then if you want me to adopt out the three brothers, I would. If you want me to keep them, I would. And of course they would all stay together no matter what - as you can tell I'm very passionate about not splitting up families.

Yes that's fine about the CN - the only reason I asked if a cage would come with them in the first place is because I figured you wouldn't take it with you.

 

[sketchi]

ok, so Sharlee just let me know that she'd be willing to take all 3 babies in, if I would lend her the CN. if/when I come back, she'd return Poppy and Wally + cage, and she'd have Tofu slowly intro'd to her other group by then.

I think that would be the best solution. I don't want to overburden your rescue, and if Sharlee is willing to provide a good home for all the wee ones, it seems like a good plan to me. would it be possible for you to take in Strider and Milky without the CN, Chelle? I can give you a small temporary cage, if that would help. and of course I will still donate some money to your rescue, since I'm really grateful that you'd provide a safe haven for my deserving old gentlemen.

 

[xxchelle]

I didn't need a cage, it would just have made it easier. I'm sad the brothers are getting split up, even after my offers to keep them together and to actually KEEP them instead of adopting them out - and return all three brothers together to you if/when you get back.

Let me know when you're leaving, because by then neither Milky nor Strider might be alive, then we can go from there.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

It's sad to see a group being split up for no reason especially if there is a chance that you might be coming back. I currently have many different groups of siblings and I could never imagine splitting them up.

Also out of curiosity what is your plan if Milky or Strider passes before you leave but the other is still living?

 

[sketchi]

Also out of curiosity what is your plan if Milky or Strider passes before you leave but the other is still living?

I didn't think about that... if that happens then I'd need them to be together no matter what.

it's just that Chelle said this: "Then if you want me to adopt out the three brothers, I would. If you want me to keep them, I would." so I thought adopting out the three brothers was an option, and since Sharlee was already asking for them/plus I originally got them from Sharlee, it seemed like a great arrangement.

it's very generous of Chelle to offer to take them all, but here's my thinking: she runs a rescue, whereas Sharlee doesn't. Chelle will always need to take in new rats, and I don't want to add to her work more than necessary. 5 rats is a lot more work than 2 rats imo. Sharlee takes care of rats for fun; Chelle takes care of rats for 'business' (sorta)--it seems more 'wrong' to impose on Chelle?

however, it's a good point that either Milky or Strider will pass alone, and then that's another huge issue. Milky is sooo tough to intro to anyone, and Strider gets soo depressed when he has no one to boss around (but he's quite easy to intro, imo, but I can't imagine just handing him over to Chelle solo!). uggh it's true I'd rather not split them up after all. );

I know you just want the best for the rats, Chelle, but are you sure it's not asking too much of you? would it hinder your ability to take on new rats in any way? would it be bothersome? or would you enjoy having these rats? it would be ideal that they aren't split up, but Milky likes lots of human company, and the babies all like to do tricks for treats once in a while (especially Wally). would that be ok with you?

 

I really hope you don't split them up! Esp since you don't HAVE to.

 

[lilspaz68]

I think its fine if the 3 babies go back to Sharlee, she is a pet home, which we all strive to get our babies into. The 2 elderly boys will have each other, and if one passes before the other, then the remaining boy can either stay with sketchi until he passes (Milky is 3, that is phenomenol, but that also means he hasn't a lot more time)..how old is your other boy? or goes to Chelle right away so he has ratty friends.

 

[jorats]

This is a tough decision for sketchi. And only sketchi can make it. She knows her rats completely and will do what's best for them.
Sharlees is a great home for the young ones, a forever home. But that leaves the older boys... It really is sad to see them split up but a forever home is the best home no matter how you break it down.
I'm sure Chelle has a lot of other rats she could integrate the older ones with. The young ones will most likely adapt easily to the change, it's the older ones that might take it hard and with Chelle's love and care, she'll be able to help them adjust.

We lost a member here, a good one, because her rats were not returned to her as they should have been. A forever home trumps anything else. A rescue is to help when no other homes can be found.
We need to support sketch in her decision... it is hers to make.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

A forever home trumps anything else.

First off Chelle offered a forever home for them if that's what sketchi wanted and second imo a forever home that is going to split siblings doesn't trump going into a rescue together. That being said it all comes down to what sketchi is most comfortable with. My advice would be to wait until closer to the time you are leaving to make the decision (since you have options) and then make the choice based on who is still with you (maybe Sharlee would be willing to take Strider as well if he is still with you but Milky isn't?).

 

a forever home that is going to split siblings doesn't trump going into a rescue together.

I agree!

Chelle said she would keep them, I just think it would be hard i\on the older ones loosing friends. I know when I took my oldies away from my young ones, they were pretty upset, I wish I never did it, but it was the best thing I could have done at the time ..badger is too rough for oldies.

But like the others have said, it's all what you want! and im sure we will support whatever decision you make :hugs:

No matter what your decision is, i know it will be the best for for your ratties, because you know them the best! :heart:

This has to be so very hard for you to do! :cuddle:

 

[Sharlees rattakisses]

It was my understanding that xxchelle asked that Milky and Strider come to her.
I would happily take Milky and Strider as well.
Xxchelle does A LOT of great work with her rescue and I imagine it keeps her quite busy.
I am kept quite busy as well.
I care for my 6 ratties and my Nieces 6 and integrating Kenny with my girls has taken a lot of time and patience.
Who gets Lily's ratties isn't some contest to be won.
Sketchi has a hard decision to make and I think all this going back and forth has made it much worse.
There is a good possibility that she won't even be moving to Hong Kong.
The boys won't have to be placed for months if Lily does move.
As Jo said, Sketchi knows her ratties better than anyone.
It's up to her where the boys will be living.
The choice is hers to make.
She will choose the one that's best for her and this is in no way makes the other person lacking.
We want the best for her ratties that's what's important.

 

[Moon]

it holds a lot of memories for me. if anything, can I lend it to you for a year/however long I'm gone for? I would probably want it back when I return, though.

I am sorry, but this is one of the most audacious things I have ever read. You are giving up your pets for the possibility of a temporary position over seas and you want the CAGE back because of the memories it holds? I would just be happy that I was given a solution so quickly, if I were you!

You aren't even going to give the rats to anyone for a while, deal with the cage situation as it comes closer. You have found somewhere for them to go if in fact this goes about. But don't put the cart before the horse and start asking for things back before you've even left.

Don't get me wrong, it is great that you are looking at solutions now and not at the last minute like so many people do. But give the cage to whomever agrees to take the rats and count yourself lucky that you're not being charged a surrender fee.

 

[sketchi]

different things hold different memories for people. I was going to give quite a generous donation, I would indeed HAPPILY pay a surrender fee if there was one, and not for one second was I not grateful that a solution(s!) has presented itself so quickly.

but the cage is mine. the bottom's been chewed through, it's not a new clean cage, if anything there's new models of CNs out that I could buy in the future that would be better anyway. it is not an issue of money, but of the fact that all my rats have lived in that cage. there are just a lot of memories with it. maybe you don't attach memories to inanimate objects, and perhaps it is stupid/silly/pointless to do so, but I do. so I would ask for my cage back regardless.

it's a very REAL possibility that I'm moving overseas (plane tickets have been booked, though it's always possible to cancel), and it may not be temporary (who knows!!), either way it's a pretty important part of my career. but I'd like to get all issues and answers sorted as thoroughly as possible, since, there's time at the moment. I KNOW I'm already a 'bad' pet owner in many people's books for not caring for a pet to the natural extent of its lifespan, and I have no excuses for that. shouldn't have gotten the babies in the first place, then I could hold off leaving until the old rats die, but eh I got suckered in with their cute faces. I'd only been planning to visit Sharlee, not adopt, since I missed my then-recently-deceased dumbo. but anyway, I have them now, and it's a bad situation I'm trying to rectify as best I can.


p.s.
if I could take them with me, I would, but since the vets in china are incomparable to the ones here, I'd rather not risk it (especially with animals as fragile and 'exotic' as rats). it's not about the cost of travel, since I've researched it and it's quite doable, but rather what happens when I get there. rats are just not a popular pet there, and vets wouldn't know what to do with them. I've lived in china as a child and had pets, and have always been disappointed with the vet service. if my animals got sick, no matter what medicine was prescribed (once, even diluted human medicine??), they ended up dying. it's terrible, and unprofessional. perhaps the quality of pet care in china has improved since then for more popular animals like cats and dogs, but I wouldn't count on the small animal service. especially rats!

trust me, my first idea, when I realized I might have to move, was to bring my rats along. but after I took into consideration travel stress/vet care, I think the best option for the rats would be to find them a good home here. it's not like I'm *abandoning* the rats, because I know it won't kill or even majorly hurt them to have an owner-change. rats are adaptable creatures, and I'm sure they'll bond with their next human just as much. and I don't even feel I'm being irresponsible, since there's many backup homes already lined up (but I would much rather a rat-shacker take on the task, since you guys show more compassion and dedication to rat care than most people I know). so I don't know what else I can do, short of plain NOT moving anywhere for the next 3 years. and yes, I should've thought of that before getting the babies, but again, too late for that. next time I get a pet, I'll make sure to get a dog, or some other common animal that can easily travel and be treated by competent vets. or I'll foster, or just go pet-less and volunteer at shelters for my daily animal fix. mistake learned.

 

[jenniferkelley]

I think most of you have gone completely out of control. I'm not attacking anyone, but this is just my opinion: THIS IS LILY'S DECISION. THE CHOICE IS NOT UP TO YOU. I don't understand why you people are putting so much pressure on her when she has done nothing but explain her situation and has been nice and calming regardless of all your attacking comments. Personally I think the three little ones, Poppy, Wally and Tofu should go to Sharlee. I know Sharlee would take amazing care of them and would never let anyone down. As for the older two, like Lily said, she'll decide what happens when the time comes, but you shouldn't be putting so much pressure on her over this situation. Like Sharlee said, this isn't a contest, you are not winning the rats. Whoever gets them should be very grateful to have them. Everyone obviously has the right to state their opinion and im sure Lily appreciates all of them, but it doesn't mean you have to constantly tell her that its wrong to spilt them into two groups. I think that would be fine, its not like taking just one from the group. Your comments have gone beyond opinions, they've gone way past that and it's really not fair. Leave the decision up to her.

As for the cage, you can't just expect someone to give something up that they paid for, that they have a lot of memories with. Everyone has a different way of coping with things and to basically say that it's silly to have memories with something like an object is very rude in my opinion. It's just blatantly putting someone down for no reason.

 

[Moon]

I never said you couldn't attach feelings or memories to objects. I never said that this had anything to do with money (although I can see why my post read that way). I also never said that your leaving wasn't a real possibility, but reiterating that you, yourself said it wasn't for sure. And I certainly did not say you were a bad pet parent for giving up the rats. People have to move away for work all the time, and often pets have to stay behind, that is understandable. I just can't imagine asking for the cage, the home belonging to the rats, back after such a period of time. So you'll have to excuse me for being amazed at your original assertion that the cage be a loaner when you are talking about giving up your rats permanently.

Now, if Sharlee does in fact act as a very long term foster for two of your boys, that is a different story and asking for the cage back is entirely reasonable. But will you also be paying for their food, bedding, and vet bills? Obviously this is something that you and Sharlee need to work out and it is none of my business what so ever. But I hope it is something that you've cleared with her, especially in the event of a large medical emergency.

But I don't know that it is fair to anyone for that to be a maybe situation. You are going to be gone for a long while. What will determine whether or not you stay and when would that happen? Is Sharlee going to have the two boys for a year, expecting you to come for them and then at the 11th hour you're going to inform her otherwise? Maybe it is not a problem for her but it sure would be for me. Again, this is none of my business and I do not expect you to answer me. And I am am not trying to come down on you or be mean, this is just stuff that's coming to mind that I hope you discuss with Sharlee if you haven't already.

Really, honestly, I know I am sounding like an asshole and I am not meaning to at all. What happens with the rats comes down to you and what you arrange with Chelle and Sharlee and that is it. Heaven knows these are not easy decisions for you. I'm still just surprised that the cage weighs in so heavily to your choices when you're not even sure if you will be back for it.

 

[Moon]

As for the cage, you can't just expect someone to give something up that they paid for, that they have a lot of memories with. Everyone has a different way of coping with things and to basically say that it's silly to have memories with something like an object is very rude in my opinion. It's just blatantly putting someone down for no reason.

I never said it was silly to have memories attached to an object, at all. MMkay? So don't put words into my mouth, please.

As to where the rats go, people were just making their opinions known as to whether or not the rats are going to be split up. This is a public forum and people are going to give their opinions.... like you just did. It just happens that this particular issue, of splitting groups for adoption purposes, is one that many people have strong feelings on.

Lily, I know why you are not taking them with you. I am, after all, the person who brought up the lack of vet care on arrival. I completely AGREE WITH YOU 100%. Don't mistake that for a second. I was just surprised that the cage situation came into the equation at all. To me it is an automatic thing that the pets would go to a new home with all their stuff in tow.

 

[Dazzle87]

I think most of you have gone completely out of control. I'm not attacking anyone, but this is just my opinion: THIS IS LILY'S DECISION. THE CHOICE IS NOT UP TO YOU. I don't understand why you people are putting so much pressure on her when she has done nothing but explain her situation and has been nice and calming regardless of all your attacking comments. Personally I think the three little ones, Poppy, Wally and Tofu should go to Sharlee. I know Sharlee would take amazing care of them and would never let anyone down. As for the older two, like Lily said, she'll decide what happens when the time comes, but you shouldn't be putting so much pressure on her over this situation. Like Sharlee said, this isn't a contest, you are not winning the rats. Whoever gets them should be very grateful to have them. Everyone obviously has the right to state their opinion and im sure Lily appreciates all of them, but it doesn't mean you have to constantly tell her that its wrong to spilt them into two groups. I think that would be fine, its not like taking just one from the group. Your comments have gone beyond opinions, they've gone way past that and it's really not fair. Leave the decision up to her.

As for the cage, you can't just expect someone to give something up that they paid for, that they have a lot of memories with. Everyone has a different way of coping with things and to basically say that it's silly to have memories with something like an object is very rude in my opinion. It's just blatantly putting someone down for no reason.

IMO this has stayed civil. But anyway, most rescues ask for the cage for a reason (many absolutely require it), it is expensive to house rats! A rescue is doing a huge favor for you, taking your pets and paying for them, caring for them, finding homes for them, etc. The cage is one small way to help out.

 

[jorats]

I decided to go back and reread all the posts. I don't see anywhere words that attack sketchi in any way. Members stated their opinions, gave advice and recommendations... Which is what Sketchi was asking for in the first place.
Sketchi will make an informed decisions based on what she was looking for with the start of this thread.
I don't believe anyone here thinks badly of sketchi. Life happens, you must deal with it. In this case she is preparing well in advance like a good pet parent.
She's been given some great options. Those rats will be cared for one way or the other.

Let's keep this thread on topic, civil and respectful. I do think that sketchi should now communicate with Sharlee and Chelle via PMs. It is no longer any of our business unless sketchi needs more advice and opinions.