males and females in the same house

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krobinson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
245
Location
ontario
I know this thread has been done before but i couldnt find it so here it goes..

My boys are 8 weeks. They are intact and in a modded ferret nation...the 5 of them. The girls are 7 weeks and French Fry is <6 months.
They are all in the same room. Does this necessarily mean that the boys will smell them and become aggressive with their hormones? or is it only a "chance" that will happen?
If it is going to happen, if i put the one cage in my room and the other out in the living room will this stop the situation?

And lastly, if it is going to happen, what age should i see signs of it? they are only 8 weeks now.

I never kept both sexes before and im still trying to find a cheaper vet so that i could possibly spay the girls..because i know the benefits of it. However my rat vet costs over 250$ per rat for a spay. So im literally standing on a fence here.

Thanks
 
Having intact girls in the same household may be extremely hard on intact boys ie their hormones "drive them crazy".
They may also become more aggressive as a result.
(Some people report that they do not notice a difference in their intact boys.)

(I took in some rescues and while waiting for spays and neuters, the boys would become aggressive toward one another whenever the girls went into heat. Girls go into heat every 3 to 4 days.)

Rats are very smart, and very very motivated when anyone is in heat,
and people are not perfect 100% of the time.
Keeping two intact sexes in the same household is an "accident" waiting to happen, imo. It is a risk ...
We have seen this happen many times on this forum .... and it has happened to some very responsible and well respected rat owners
(Edit: not evryone with 2 intact sexes in the same household has ended up with pregnancies.)

I know of a situation where the boys were kept in the basement rec room, and the girls were in a third floor bedroom. The boys got to the girls and babies were born 3 weeks later.
 
In my experience, it really doesn't have any affect on the boys. For many years I kept males and females in the same house, and had no problems with the boys being more aggressive or going nuts whenever the girls went into heat. I would say it most likely depends on the rat. Some boys MIGHT be bothered by it, but there likely isn't a way to predict which ones will be.
 
I personally think it is an accident waiting to happen...I have seen it happen to the best of people...who thought they were being so careful. One mistake is all it takes...and you will end up with an unwanted litter.
I have all my males neutered right away and all the females done as soon as possible. I am thinking having unneutered males around females in heat will make them more irritated...I can see a difference even in my spayed and neutered rats if there is someone who is still intact around...
 
I don't see a difference at all in my males when my females are nearby - all are intact too. I'm sure every rat is different though, but I have four males and I've not seen any increased aggressiveness, personality changes, or restlessness.

I really don't see how its an accident waiting to happen as long as you're careful and responsible, and your cages are safe. If your rat can some how weasel their way out of their cage (and then into the females cage??)...you have bigger problems than that (escape into the house, chewing electrical wires, getting accidentally stepped on, eaten by your cat, etc). If you can't keep up with cage maintenance, or can't figure out how to keep the males separated from the females - then its probably not a good idea to have both.

I honestly think that everyone is making a bigger deal out of this than it needs to be. Use common sense, logistically plan out your set-up and play times, regularly inspect cages (you should be doing this anyway). I'm sorry, but if someone can't figure out how to keep their rats in their cages or are unable to monitor/plan their animal's playtime to keep genders separate...they really don't sound like the best rat owners. It makes me wonder - the 'accidents' that happen to 'careful' people...were they that really careful? Probably not. This isn't rocket science - its common sense.
 
Well I have everything secure in my ferret nation. I have the wire mesh tied down well. I'd be surprised if they could escape. Same with the girls cage it's secure. I don't let my rats off my one couch and I only take out 2 same sex rats at a time.
 
bigcityrats said:
It makes me wonder - the 'accidents' that happen to 'careful' people...were they that really careful? Probably not. This isn't rocket science - its common sense.
Click to expand...

Have you ever had a cage full of youngsters, open the door for treat time, close the door, and then discover an escapee happily prancing around the top of the cage? It takes only a split second for an agile rattie to slip past an open door (especially in a CN since they are huge), and if you were distracted for just a moment by the rest of its cagemates, you are not going to notice right away. I've had ratties make it across my apartment in less than a minute.
 
I have kept pet rats for over 20 years, and bred pet rats for 10 years. In all of that time, I honestly never once had an accidental litter. 10 years of keeping males and females in the same house, not one single accidental litter. I will be honest and say I have had rats slip out of cages, and because I make a head count of everyone I would figure it out right away. I will also say there had been times where a cage was not properly secured and rats got out, but even so I noticed within a few hours and remedied the situation. Still no accidental litters. In 10 years I wouldn't call that "luck" either. ;)
 
rhapsody, yes i understand what you are saying. Although i may not be perfect, i count the rats EVERY time i open the cage and i try to keep them in my site. Accidents do happen and i can say i may not be ready for a litter, I will never be, but i am prepared to take responsibility should it happen. But like i said, im looking for a good vet with a good price, possibly with a discount to take in 3 females to be spayed.
 
rhapsody said:
bigcityrats said:
It makes me wonder - the 'accidents' that happen to 'careful' people...were they that really careful? Probably not. This isn't rocket science - its common sense.
Click to expand...

Have you ever had a cage full of youngsters, open the door for treat time, close the door, and then discover an escapee happily prancing around the top of the cage? It takes only a split second for an agile rattie to slip past an open door (especially in a CN since they are huge), and if you were distracted for just a moment by the rest of its cagemates, you are not going to notice right away. I've had ratties make it across my apartment in less than a minute.
Click to expand...

I have a same sex pair, but I had a bad experience with this sort of thing. When I first got my second girl, I had the cages about two inches apart so they could smell each other, but not touch. I was feeding Navi (the older girl) and she BOLTED to the top of the cage, which she had never done before. It was literally a four second ordeal, but she was able to reach little Calista and bite the top of her nose pretty badly! I was so mad at myself over it, because I was blocking Navi with my hand and thought that I was being careful enough. Her nose healed up and you can't even tell that anything happened, and the girls are best friends now... but I learned my lesson with how fast rats can be when they want to do something bad enough!
 
I would say if you are going to keep males and females in the same house and want to take as few chances as possible...
Make sure your cages are well secured - check every millimeter of the cage, check latches, locks, etc and make sure there is NO way for the rats to get out.

Keep the rats in separate rooms - that won't necessarily stop an accident from happening, but it does lessen the chance.

Keep doors in between the rats closed - again lessening the chances.

Never open the cages of opposite sexes at the same time, ever.

Always have separate play times.

If there are others in the household that might accidentally put the wrong rat in the wrong cage, put locks on the cages and take full responsibility for them, and always supervise other household members around the rats.

Count every head every time you open and close the cage - that ensures no one slipped out when you weren't looking.

And get at least one sex spayed/neutered as soon as possible. :)
 
krobinson, if your feel comfortable enough to have both in the same house and are confident in your abilities to keep up with it - then go ahead. At the end of the day, it matters what you're able to maintain and handle - and you know your capabilities better than anyone else here. I recommend taking the precautions that have been mentioned here, and obviously your best option is to try and get your boys or girls fixed.
 
yes I am going to move the girls to my room. Im confident in my housing, and i check it daily to make sure there are no loop holes. Thanks to all that have responded, sorry it got a little "heated".
 
krobinson said:
rhapsody, yes i understand what you are saying. Although i may not be perfect, i count the rats EVERY time i open the cage and i try to keep them in my site. Accidents do happen and i can say i may not be ready for a litter, I will never be, but i am prepared to take responsibility should it happen. But like i said, im looking for a good vet with a good price, possibly with a discount to take in 3 females to be spayed.
Click to expand...

Sorry, that wasn't actually directed at you - I was just springing to the defense of the folks this has happened to. In addition to being extra careful when having mixed sexes, you need to have luck on your side too. Rats can be super fast and sneaky when they want to.
 
As Dallas said, there have been some very careful, experienced, and well respected rat owner that ahve ended up with accidental litters.
No matter how many precautions you take, no one is perfect 100% of the time.
Sorraia mentioned times when her rats escaped, unnoticed, but fortunately she is very careful, had a procedure in place, and noticed right away.

Having two unaltered sexes in the same household can be very stressful on rats and is an accident waiting to happen
It is a risk ... an unnecessary risk for pet owners ... unless they are planning to have at least one sex fixed as soon as their vet is comfortable doing the procedure (Some vets like to wait until rats are a certain size)

If a pet owner decides to take the risk of keeping two unaltered sexes and has an accidental litter, then they should be responsible enough and prepared to keep every baby for its entire life. (Rats can have up to 26 in a litter, with average litter size being 12 to 14 babies.) Rehoming would take homes away from rescue rats in desperate need.

(Of course, I am talking about pet owners, not those very very few people who may be ethical breeders, breeding properly for health and life span.)
 
Having babies boys grow up with baby girls in the same room, you probably won't get much of a reaction. But it's those of use who rescue older rats.
I've seen it time and time again. When I have adult intact males and I bring in a new rescue, an intact female, during the time she waits for her spay, my intact males go nuts. They want her badly.
So I can understand why some of you say there's no reaction, but I can assure you, yes there is. I've been keeping rats for over 10 years and this has happened countless times. I also consider myself very responsible pet owner and twice, I could of had an accidental litter by being not as careful as I should be. I was lucky though, the female was close to her spay date.
 
jorats said:
But it's those of use who rescue older rats.
I've seen it time and time again. When I have adult intact males and I bring in a new rescue, an intact female, during the time she waits for her spay, my intact males go nuts. They want her badly.
So I can understand why some of you say there's no reaction, but I can assure you, yes there is.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to start an arguement but just wanted to reply to this. I've also brought in several older boys and I can honestly say that I have never noticed them going crazy and acting any different to usual.

I don't think it is that difficult to keep both intact sexes safely in the same house. I would never have cages with big bar spacing, so even if they did escape, they couldn't get through the cage bars. Everytime I'm feeding mine (for example) I'll always open the door, give them their food, and once the door is shut I'll count them all... it's just habit and it's not that difficult to do. If any of the girls have got up on top of the cage in those few seconds, I'll notice it within seconds and lift them back down again.

My boys and girls play in the same playroom and the smell of eachother really doesn't phase them either. I know my rats, I know that they aren't stressed out by the smell of eachother.
 
When I bring in older boys, no issues... it's when an intact female comes in.
Now, I must admit, I observe my rats and can feel their energy very well, I'm quite lucky to have that extra sense, many call it a sixth sense.
 
I've had my boys for 11days and I've noticed they are slightly stressed with having the girls across the room luckily the bar spacing on the boys cage is 1cm so there's no way of an escape (touch wood).
My boys are booked in to get neutered next Wednesday so they wont have to suffer the temptations of the girls for too much longer.
I know they need at least 3 weeks before intros with girls but do they still have the urge to hump after they are neutered?
 

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