jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
I read the info on a Facebook group called Vegan Cats. There is a vet in that group. But a google search will probably get you what you need. I myself have not kept anything and am not currently "sold" on the idea.
Killing our pet rats
- Thread starter SQ
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Joanne
Well-Known Member
Is this correct?SQ said:
"Organic foods are foods that are produced using methods of organic farming â with limited modern synthetic inputs such as synthetic pesticides and chemical fertilizers, though organic pesticides, such as Bt toxin, are still used. Organic foods are also not processed using irradiation, industrial solvents, or chemical food additives.[1] " Wikipedia
"A genetically modified organism (GMO) is an organism whose genetic material has been altered using genetic engineering techniques." (Wikipedia)
So just because a food is organic, doesn't mean you can assume it's not genetically modified, right?
victoria
Well-Known Member
No, most organic certifications require some level of assurance products are not GMOs, although I don't think you can guarantee it 100%:
Genetically modified organisms are not permitted under the standard, as stated in CAN/CGSB-32.310-2006, 1.4.1.a. Any product that is certified organic under the Organic Products Regulations (OPR) (SOR/2006-338) cannot use GMOs. In order to protect against GMO contamination, farmers must demonstrate to their certifying body (CB) that they have done everything possible to prevent contamination from neighbouring fields.
http://www.cog.ca/faq/index.php?action= ... hlight=gmo
I think each certifying body has slightly different standards but organic should mean that you can be reasonably assured a product does not contain GMOs. It wasn't always like that, it's only changed in the past few years.
Genetically modified organisms are not permitted under the standard, as stated in CAN/CGSB-32.310-2006, 1.4.1.a. Any product that is certified organic under the Organic Products Regulations (OPR) (SOR/2006-338) cannot use GMOs. In order to protect against GMO contamination, farmers must demonstrate to their certifying body (CB) that they have done everything possible to prevent contamination from neighbouring fields.
http://www.cog.ca/faq/index.php?action= ... hlight=gmo
I think each certifying body has slightly different standards but organic should mean that you can be reasonably assured a product does not contain GMOs. It wasn't always like that, it's only changed in the past few years.
smilez_n_hugs
Senior Member
Unfortunately this article sums up the reality of GMOs making their way into organic produce. It is virtually impossible to avoid cross contamination.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/02/13 ... -foods-gm/
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/02/13 ... -foods-gm/
The thing is... is cranking out synthetically-produced taurine any more sustainable than simply using some kind of available animal protein? A large portion of synthetic taurine is produced in China. Scientists have already found that synthetic taurine is not a good choice for human infant formula, as it has inferior nutritional value compared to naturally-derived taurine. (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 5/abstract) Honestly I'd rather my cat's food be natural/organic. It's kind of like taking those lab-made multi-vitamins - yes it has vitamins and minerals, but they're all lab-made and packed into pill form. Eating an apple or a carrot or some kale gives you some of the same vitamins in "natural" form. Additionally, the National Organic Standards Board rejected the use of the following synthetic nutrients in human infant formula: lutein, lycopene, nucleotides, taurine, l-carnitine and l-methionine. If we aren't supposed to give it to our own human babies, would you give it to your fur babies?
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
smilez_n_hugs said:
According to the article the plants that are likely to contain GMO cross contamination are sugar beets, canola and corn ... and I think it is likely that wheat could be included too.
So if you do not eat those plants or anything containing them ... including animals, and you do not eat other types of GMOs, then you are likely not eating GMOs.
Plus it depends where you live, countries are passing laws against the growing of GMOs and people are refusing to buy anything containing them in countries were the law requires that they be labelled.
Toxins, of course, re another matter. Although given the spread of toxins in the soil, you may be getting those if people don't demand envir laws and if govs don't start listening. - We have a problem with these toxins because of the farming of GMOs... and it is going to continue to get worse as long as GMOs are being grown .... of course that will not last too long because this is killing all the bees and without pollination there will not be many plants .... People fighting against GMOs and Monsanto and their poison, think there is still time to change things ...
My father is a farmer in Europe. He is told what to grow by his boss, but it is still a privately owned farm and so he does have a say in what to grow and how. I'm not sure if he grows GMOs, but he does use pesticides. If he didn't, whole fields would perish. I know this first hand- farms around us sometimes try to grow a field, or a few acres, 100%organic- and it is impossible. If you are trying to grow a field of wheat completely organically, and the 15 fields around you of other farmers are not organic-- sprayed with pesticides-- then those bugs which now have nothing to eat have no choice but to swarm over your one unsprayed field to a point where the plant is uncapable of fighting them off.
Sadly, organic results in no money and no gain for most farmers. It is a job and an only source of income for hundreds, and thanks to giant companies that have brought it to this point, there is simply no way to "do the right thing" and support your family, too.
Sadly, organic results in no money and no gain for most farmers. It is a job and an only source of income for hundreds, and thanks to giant companies that have brought it to this point, there is simply no way to "do the right thing" and support your family, too.
Fidget
Senior Member
I make a large Cereal mix with various low or non-sugar people cereals (especially organic puffed cereals to keep their weight down, wheat, rice, millet), and a small Grain mix with various grains, seeds, coconut & ground flax from human bulk bins, and mix those 2 with Actrium holistic small breed adult dog food when I feed them (to keep the mix even every time without the small stuff settling to the bottom of the whole). And they get a varying variety of fresh food at suppertime. I also mix in some powdered capsule vitamins from time to time.
I did my research in the beginning to figure out what they need nutrition-wise and now I just go with it. I trust human food for them more than stuff I don't know what's in it. But human stuff is so suspect too, isn't it?
My kids do pretty well age-wise, nobody's hit 3 yrs (30 3/4 mos tops, most from 2 - 2 1/2 yrs) but I also can't afford testing and surgeries which would have expanded the time for a lot of them..
I would expect pet food manufacturers to have more researched knowledge of the optimum diet for pets than I do, but I don't TRUST them to implement that, cutting corners financially where the consumer can't see it is the 1st order of every business. I like to know they're getting food I would eat myself, not old grains Kellogg's refuses, or fruits & veggies I wouldn't choose in the market, or moldy corn.
So I don't know if the lab blocks would have lengthened the lives or bettered the health of my kids over what I fed them or not, I believe my more loving choices balance out their better knowledge but lesser concern for the health of my babies. Lab blocks would be easier, but I question their makeup.
And as important for me is their pleasure in eating! I don't want the government to decide that we're costing the medical system by being fat or eating junk and eradicate grocery stores and our choices, and provide us all with a standard brown mush day in & day out for the rest of our lives that is formulated for our optimum health. I'd rather die sooner than live longer on that. Especially if I was locked in a cage and eating was my biggest pleasure. I feel the quality of THEIR lives is more important to them than my desire for the length of their lives and my concerns about the my financial cost of their pleasures is to me. I just have to say that.
I did my research in the beginning to figure out what they need nutrition-wise and now I just go with it. I trust human food for them more than stuff I don't know what's in it. But human stuff is so suspect too, isn't it?
My kids do pretty well age-wise, nobody's hit 3 yrs (30 3/4 mos tops, most from 2 - 2 1/2 yrs) but I also can't afford testing and surgeries which would have expanded the time for a lot of them..
I would expect pet food manufacturers to have more researched knowledge of the optimum diet for pets than I do, but I don't TRUST them to implement that, cutting corners financially where the consumer can't see it is the 1st order of every business. I like to know they're getting food I would eat myself, not old grains Kellogg's refuses, or fruits & veggies I wouldn't choose in the market, or moldy corn.
So I don't know if the lab blocks would have lengthened the lives or bettered the health of my kids over what I fed them or not, I believe my more loving choices balance out their better knowledge but lesser concern for the health of my babies. Lab blocks would be easier, but I question their makeup.
And as important for me is their pleasure in eating! I don't want the government to decide that we're costing the medical system by being fat or eating junk and eradicate grocery stores and our choices, and provide us all with a standard brown mush day in & day out for the rest of our lives that is formulated for our optimum health. I'd rather die sooner than live longer on that. Especially if I was locked in a cage and eating was my biggest pleasure. I feel the quality of THEIR lives is more important to them than my desire for the length of their lives and my concerns about the my financial cost of their pleasures is to me. I just have to say that.
That's been my worry thus far; And that was why I started asking if those raw feeders (Dogs and cats)'s beliefs were right - Nutrition over time, not in a single sitting.
I used to feed organic seeds, nuts and grains with top quality dogs kibbles (Rated 5 stars on dogs kibbles analysis sites) and a lot, and a lot of fresh vegetables and other foods like chicken breast meats and eggs. I do not really study on diet a lot then, but now I am mostly MORE a Organic-food-stressing person when it comes to my dogs (And my now rats).
Since lab blocks (And we only have Mazuri imported by my friend for now) should be fed, I do not give meat any more. Instead, more greens, more organic supplements like hydrated Chia seeds, cold-pressed Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Organic wheatgerm etc. They are given as a treat with greens being fed every 2 days (Sometimes daily). I avoid corns and carrots (Basically high in sugar) as well as fruits as much as possible. Rare treats of those /might/ or /might not/. My base for them when it comes to human-graded food is: No salt, no sugar, zero - very little fats and absolutely controlled protein (Mainly because I only have Mazuri which is said to have too high a protein level as well!).
I guess since there are no healthy alternative to lab blocks for now, all we should do is to feed more human-graded foods in a better way possible (Opting for Organic if you can afford). Luckily in Singapore, our vegetables are always fresh and green, and since we do not have winter, we do not need to freeze and damage their nutrition for winter times - Greens are always available.
I used to feed organic seeds, nuts and grains with top quality dogs kibbles (Rated 5 stars on dogs kibbles analysis sites) and a lot, and a lot of fresh vegetables and other foods like chicken breast meats and eggs. I do not really study on diet a lot then, but now I am mostly MORE a Organic-food-stressing person when it comes to my dogs (And my now rats).
Since lab blocks (And we only have Mazuri imported by my friend for now) should be fed, I do not give meat any more. Instead, more greens, more organic supplements like hydrated Chia seeds, cold-pressed Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Organic wheatgerm etc. They are given as a treat with greens being fed every 2 days (Sometimes daily). I avoid corns and carrots (Basically high in sugar) as well as fruits as much as possible. Rare treats of those /might/ or /might not/. My base for them when it comes to human-graded food is: No salt, no sugar, zero - very little fats and absolutely controlled protein (Mainly because I only have Mazuri which is said to have too high a protein level as well!).
I guess since there are no healthy alternative to lab blocks for now, all we should do is to feed more human-graded foods in a better way possible (Opting for Organic if you can afford). Luckily in Singapore, our vegetables are always fresh and green, and since we do not have winter, we do not need to freeze and damage their nutrition for winter times - Greens are always available.
victoria
Well-Known Member
I was at the vet today and he told me he euthanized a rat this week that was suffering from kidney disease (among other issues) after being fed cat food her whole life. The family told him they researched it and RS said it was fine. (I think they more likely went to RF or somewhere.)
Dog and especially cat food are not suitable for rats and they are dangerous to feed over time. (I understand for those outside North America it's harder to come by decent blocks but here it is very easy.) If you want to make a homemade diet, fine. Understand the base of any properly balanced homemade diet will be tons of veggies and it will include some animal products unless you add synthetic supplements. Throwing together some cereal, dry pasta and dog food will only harm your rats.
Dog and especially cat food are not suitable for rats and they are dangerous to feed over time. (I understand for those outside North America it's harder to come by decent blocks but here it is very easy.) If you want to make a homemade diet, fine. Understand the base of any properly balanced homemade diet will be tons of veggies and it will include some animal products unless you add synthetic supplements. Throwing together some cereal, dry pasta and dog food will only harm your rats.
My rats lived to around 2 to 3 years old so I guess I did do something okays, Victoria. Still, now I won't feel comfortable with it since I am able to purchase some lab blocks off my friend.
Nonetheless, cats' kibbles are too high in protein and if I am not wrong, even the adults' are higher than that of a puppy's kibble. I used to give a bit to my puppy as he was very hyper, and despite eating sufficiently, does not gain proper weight. Now he's older and more laid back (Still hyper) and weighs normal now, he's on dogs'.
I will have to agree that giving only cats/ dogs' kibbles are not very species-appropriate for rats. If you are doing a Organic mix, please dilute the amount of kibbles given, and choose Senior/ Old dogs' kibbles and not those that are too high in protein (Adult dogs' kibbles protein % is too high for them even, let alone puppies' or cats' kibbles!).
I treat my rats to one piece of my dogs' kibbles once per week still.
Nonetheless, cats' kibbles are too high in protein and if I am not wrong, even the adults' are higher than that of a puppy's kibble. I used to give a bit to my puppy as he was very hyper, and despite eating sufficiently, does not gain proper weight. Now he's older and more laid back (Still hyper) and weighs normal now, he's on dogs'.
I will have to agree that giving only cats/ dogs' kibbles are not very species-appropriate for rats. If you are doing a Organic mix, please dilute the amount of kibbles given, and choose Senior/ Old dogs' kibbles and not those that are too high in protein (Adult dogs' kibbles protein % is too high for them even, let alone puppies' or cats' kibbles!).
I treat my rats to one piece of my dogs' kibbles once per week still.
