Kidney Failure foods

[user 78]

Okay, I think this may be something of a long shot, but I know some members either work at clinics themselves, or are pro premium foods and may be able to help me out some.

My cat Socrates was diagnosed with CRF earlier this past week. The vet gave me the Science Diet k/d canned for him - and it's crap... Socs will have absolutely nothing to do with it, and even my other cat [after initial novelty] has turned his nose up to it. I understand he needs a diet low in phosphorous, but there has got to be a premium diet that will do. Here's the problem, though : My vet can't give me a number to try and stay under as far as phos levels go. The SD k/d has an extremely low level of phos, and no non-rx diet even begins to be that low. There are other renal diets that are higher in phos, which commercial diets can compare to, but again the vet can't give me a number. He also keeps saying things like 'renal diets have other things added in to help this,' but couldn't tell me how ground whole corn or pork by-products could somehow be helping this.

So does anyone have a number for me? Anyone else dealt with this and had good results while using a premium food? I've joined some CRF groups for info, but they're feeding their cats things like Fancy Feast, Friskies, etc.. [which incidentally have a higher phos count] and are seriously bashing brands like Wellness, Innova, etc.. I'm debating on just using brands such as Wellness/Innova/EVO and adding in a phos binder, but I'd *really* like to have some advice from a qualified professional. Unfortunately, after him being hospitalized 3 times in the past 2 weeks, I can't afford to find another vet and just go through all of this again.

My fat cat, cause who can resist this face?! That belly?!!?

 

[Cityratt]

Have you tried him on the MediCal low protein? I think thats another common one that is used so far as the vet diet circuit goes - is it the new formulation of k/d you were trying? I know they recently reformulated it to make it more apealing....if you've got cans that you need to use up you can always try warming it for a few seconds (test for hot spots with your finger) to see if you cant atleast keep him eating something while you look for another diet for him...

Other than that I cant really say - because all i really know are the veterinary diets...if you're convinced he wont eat the k/d and you have left over cans they should refund your money for the unopened portion...their prescription diets are 100% gaurenteed...if you're feeding dry kibble they should even take the bag back and give you a refund for the uneaten portion...

Now that i think of it the clinic cat at the one hospital i work at is in renal failure and they mentioned a new formulaton of the k/d dry - if you're really pulling at straws maybe give that a shot when it comes out if you want (it has a photo of a cat on the bag versus the silouette image).

Im not trying to push veterinary diets on you - its just all im really familar with enough to provide informaiton about....

Hopefully someone can give you information on other diets types if you're less inclined to use veterinary diets...

good luck on your search for a food that he likes...(sometimes i love my dogs because they eat everything :wink2: )

 

[SQ]

It has been several years since my cat died at 19 years and 2 months but he was on a diet low in phosphorous since he was very young. I know there were several different diets available from the vet that we used over the years as he would get bored and want something different.

There shouldn't be any vet fee for returning to the vet or going to another vet and purchasing food low in phosphorous to try. You shouldn't need to take your cat with you.

 

[user 78]

I'm looking for a non prescription diet is the thing. I don't like the ingredients of the vet diets.

 

[Moon]

Have you considered working with a vet that deals with nutrition specifically? Maybe you two could formulate a home made diet.

I found this link http://www.felinecrf.org/tinned_food.htm ... they list this:

"A CRF cat needs food which is low in phosphorus,ideally under 0.5% according to Dr Scott Brown in Management of feline chronic renal failure (1998) Waltham Focus 8 " I like that this page tells you to also consider water content and so on.

They post this link : http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm that compares North American foods. They also list some baby foods?

 

[user 78]

Yea, I've looked at that.. The only problem with the KatKarma page was that A: she didn't have the brand I was looking for or B: she had a completely different value than a dated table I found. Since the other table is dated [as recent as last month vs Karma 10/05 for her updated version] I'm more comfortable with their values - plus they were recommended by pro premium/raw diet sites. Janet & Binky's also lists fat and carbs, which I really liked. I found them through a website that is seriously pro informed owners and goes into great detail about figuring out "good" food vs "wtf are you feeding them" food.

Finding a vet around here that doesn't cost a small fortune just to discuss diets is nigh impossible. Everyone I've called [vets referred by various groups of premium/raw feeders as being very well informed in nutrition and those listed as holistic and informed] about just discussing dietary needs and values wants me to bring him in for their own exam and tests. I just can't afford that right now. I'll keep looking, though.

I was hoping not to have to do a crapload of math, I suppose. Ah, well, s'what Excel and calculators are for.

 

[user 78]

One should always read the FAQ's on sites, even if you're sure they have absolutely nothing in there that would help you. I've found out that 1% roughly equals to 240 mg, which is extremely helpful and means I don't have to do any math. yay!!

 

[Moon]

LOL, yay for less math!!

 

[Bronwyn]

I wish I could help, but Cityratt said the same thing I was going to. Like her, I really only know the vet prescription foods.

 

[Sheryl]

First of all...Socreates is absolutely gorgeous!!! Kissing his belly - I love tuxedo cats and he's got character!

CRF cats sometimes have a difficult time eating any foods because they tend to secrete excess stomach acids. Since these foods are often less palatable than the commercial foods, you must be patient and persistent in your efforts to get your cat to eat the prescribed diet.

Some cats may eat some or all of these foods, but many cats absolutely refuse to eat any. DO NOT starve the cat. If a cat doesn't want to eat, it WON'T. Remember that it's most important for them to keep food intake and body weight up. When introducing a new low protein diet, start by gradually increasing the new food and decreasing the old. This procedure could take anywhere from a week to a month depending on how finicky your cat is. If your cat doesn't like a dry version of the new diet, try the canned and vice versa.

Our vets are very pro MediCal Renal LP. Here are the features and ingredients:

Renal LP is a low protein, low phosphorus and controlled sodium diet that helps manage kidney, liver or heart failure and metabolic urinary stones (urate, cystine).

A restricted level of highly digestible protein to minimize the production of nitrogenous metabolites, reduce the purine content and produce a more neutral urine pH

Low phosphorus levels to help prevent the development of secondary renal hyperparathyroidism

Reduced sodium content to help prevent hypertension

Increased levels of water-soluble vitamins to compensate for losses associated with kidney disease

Additional potassium to reduce the likelihood of hypokalemia

Supplemental levels of omega 3 and 6 fatty acids for healthy skin and a luxurious coat

Enriched with antioxidants to reduce free radical damage and associated degenerative processes

Naturally preserved

Ingredients
Dry - RENAL LP 21 TM/MC

Rice, Ground Corn, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract and Citric Acid), Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Meal, Natural Flavour, Cellulose, Dried Whole Egg, Minerals (Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Citrate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulphate, Copper Sulphate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite and Calcium Iodate), Brewers Yeast, Taurine and Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E, Niacin, Biotin, Riboflavin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 and Folic Acid)and D-LMethionine.


Canned - RENAL LP TM/MC

Water Sufficient For Processing, Chicken By-Products, Meat By-Products, Corn, Vegetable Oil, Chicken, Corn Starch, Natural Flavour, Minerals (Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Sulphate, Manganese Sulphate and Copper Sulphate), Guar Gum, Taurine and Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E, Niacin, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid and Vitamin B12).

You might also want to check this site out, very interesting...

http://www.holisticat.com/drjcrf.html

 

[user 78]

First of all...Socrates is absolutely gorgeous!!! Kissing his belly - I love tuxedo cats and he's got character!

He lets me get a few kisses in on his pudge belly every once in a while. He prefers to groom my face and give nose kisses, though.

Ingredients
Dry - RENAL LP 21 TM/MC
Rice, Ground Corn, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract and Citric Acid), Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Meal, Natural Flavour, Cellulose, Dried Whole Egg, Minerals (Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Citrate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulphate, Copper Sulphate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite and Calcium Iodate), Brewers Yeast, Taurine and Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E, Niacin, Biotin, Riboflavin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 and Folic Acid)and D-LMethionine.

This is where my problem with the renal diets is. Cats are carnivores, not omnivores or herbivores. Rice is not highly digestible to them, and corn is barely digestible for 90% of animals of any sort. Most have to 'reprocess' it in order to get a minimal amount of nutrients from it. A very small amount of certain vegetables I understand to add fiber, but most of the top ingredients don't do this. Chicken fat is listed ahead of the Chicken Meal, so that the majority of the little protein this food has is nothing but fat. Chicken meal, while atleast telling me what animal it came from, is entirely too vague. There's bits of this and that and the other ground up in some machine, not quality muscle meat and organs. Meals are the ground up leftover bits after removing the 'human grade' meats.

Canned - RENAL LP TM/MC

Water Sufficient For Processing, Chicken By-Products, Meat By-Products, Corn, Vegetable Oil, Chicken, Corn Starch, Natural Flavour, Minerals (Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Sulphate, Manganese Sulphate and Copper Sulphate), Guar Gum, Taurine and Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E, Niacin, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid and Vitamin B12).

Again, the first few ingredients are awful. By products are the feathers, bones, feet, necks, etc.. left over after the human grade stuff has been pulled off. This can mean diseased organs, cancers, tumors, and who knows what else. The term "meat by products" is so vague that you don't even know what animal [or animals] it may have come from. It could be the minced meats of the roadkill off the highway, the euth'd animals at the local shelter, the diseased cows that passed in the pastures, etc...

I don't mean to be overbearing [read : bitchy] on the subject, it just seriously irks me. If you held a cancerous liver in your hand, you wouldn't give it to your beloved pet. They make it sound like it's something else completely different to continue to wave the rose colored glasses in front of people. Then there's the basic fact that such a low protein diet, while beneficial short term for renal failure cats who's BUN/Creatinine have reached extremely high levels, can cause *so* much damage long term. If cats don't get their required protein, their bodies will actually eat itself in order to obtain that missing protein. I was shocked when I read this in dozens of articles, but it seriously does explain why so many people involved in feline CRF information talk about how thin the cats have gotten despite eating well on the renal diets, about how their muscles are just wasting away, etc..

The Dog Project lists dozens of horrible ingredients. Their focus is on dogs, but cat foods do use mostly the same ingredients.

Again, I'm sorry if that came off as me attacking anyone in specific, I really wasn't going for that. Attacking the food manufacturers, maybe, but not anyone on here.

For the record, Socs has been eating mostly Innova dry food and Wellness canned [grain free] for the past few weeks. All of his levels have come down by quite a bit, and are mostly within normal range now. He's doing so much better, though as my family likes to put it, "he has his good days and his bad weeks." :giggle:

 

[unglued]

I would go with raw food, it's the only thing i would feed my cats (except in a pinch, if i have to i will use orijen kibble) getting a cat onto raw is not too hard if it's the round u stuff, my older cat has been on raw for over a year, and he wouldn't touch anything cold at first, not he'll eat cold bones, sometimes even if they are a little bit frozen.
a great link:
http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php

also, before you shrug it off as being too expensive, consider this. my overweight cat and kitten(well, she's 1) both eat a pound of food a week, that's $8 pounds a month. that's MAX $10/month for them, as long as i stick to cheaper cuts. the pre-made raw 'patties' would cost me $5 a pound, so i save $30 by making it myself. In the beginning i used the pre packaged stuff, it seemed more palatable(I also mixed it with canned food the first few days and weaned off it). then i put in bigger chunks of meat until he was only getting a chunk of meat, from there gave him a chicken wing, and i already crushed all the bones, eventually he started breaking and eating the bones on his own. he'll eat whole chicken legs now, it's great for his teeth too!

 

[allykatt]

My 17 year old cat, Timmy has the same thing. He is on Eukanuba Vetrinary Diets multi-stage renal dry food, though lately he has been eating it too fast and throwing it up. I swear he barely chews it!

For wet food, we alternate between two kinds, to keep his interest. He gets Royal Canin Sensitivity CR TM/MC, and Hills Prescription Diet a/d. The Hills has better ingredients, no by products etc. The other one has some really crappy ingredients, but he loves it, and he needs some of the renal diet.

I totally agree that some of the ingredients make me gag, and I hate that they get the crap that WE won't eat! His mucles in his hind legs are deteriorating, and he has lost weight, but the weight loss is a GOOD thing, since he has alwasy been a BIG boy, and it affected his joints.

He also gets a phospate binder (Epakitin) and a heart pill (Fortekor) in the morning, and he LOVES his pills since he gets them in pill pockets. At dinner he gets his food with Metacam, and a bit of Sasha's Blend to help his joints.

I hope any of that helped. It has really helped him, and at 17 years old he is still just as stubborn (INSISTS on jumping up and down instead of using all the stools, cushions, boxes etc we have there to help him up) and is still happy and as active as he can be.

I hope your cat can live a long healthy life, even with his health issues!

 

[allykatt]

I almost forgot to mention that my sweet Timmy gets IV fluids usually every night. He is actually very good about it. He sits on my lap, and my dad holds the bag and watches to make sure he gets teh right amount. At first he was a real bugger about getting it, but now he is used to it, and knows that he will get lots of cuddles while he gets it, and a treat afterwards. If your cat goes downhill, you may have to do the same thing. Hope you aren't afraid of needles!

 

[Sheryl]

Oh, I'm so happy to hear your Socrates is doing better...keep up the good work! :joy:

.....more belly kisses please!

 

[user 78]

Socrates is doing fine on premium diets. He gets EVO, Nature's Variety, and Wellness canned foods only, all of which have a lower phosphorous level and a high protein level. Most of his numbers are within normal ranges and we've been able to cut out all of his medications. He receives SubQ fluids as needed, has been getting them since he came home from the vet. He's a good boy, just sits in my lap and purrs while I love on him.

Socrates did have some muscle wasting through his hips and thighs. He's always been a very muscular thing, so it was quite noticeable that his balance was off. We added a potassium supplement to his diet and he's doing good with that. It also seems to of helped his appetite quite a bit.

 

[jorats]

That is such good news!!

 

[allykatt]

How old is Socrates?
I'm glad he is doing well. I would like to change my guy over to teh wellness foods, but my mother wants him to stay on what teh vet reccommended even if it is full of by products etc.

 

[user 78]

Socs just turned 9 in mid April

 

[Moon]

I'm glad he's doing so well and that you found some stuff to work for him.