Karma cathes up!

[ryelle]

Ryelle, we DO NOT get free birth control and without insurance it is impossible to afford. If they did hand the pill out for free to women, may be we wouldn't be having this discussion. But the all mighthy dollor wins in the USA.

that is a shame. I know a lot of people don't "like" to use condoms, which is where a big majority of the problems occur.

On the talk of abortion - i think that if there is a problem with the child, and there is a danger to the childs life or the mothers life, then i think the parents should be given the option. And i think people should generally be given the option, but it IS abused by a lot of people (i dont think they understand the health affects that it can have to them). The idea of a 3rd trimester abortion is where i have a few :? . This story actually hit the UK newspapers over the weekend. It said that Dr.Tiller occasionally performed abortions on woman that were in their 9th month of pregnancy. Now in the 9th month - that baby inside the mother is a living being and a fully formed baby.
I also don't quite understand how he could do what he did when he has 4 children of his own. Seems a bit... ironic?


And, something that ALWAYS plays on my mind... These people that are having abortions, and using them as a form of contraception.... i would HATE to think how many Sexually Transmitted Diseases they are riddled with. The idea of a STD scares me more than having an accidental pregnancy

 

[jorats]

Debating is healthy... I don't see why people can't share their opinions and ideas on a subject. Many of us have our own ideas and perceptions formed by our environment and experiences. Nobody is wrong in their personal opinion. Nobody is wrong with their feelings.

I've see all sides of abortion...

 

[Zooy]

Wow. I am guessing most of us on this forum are female, thus an issue such as this is close to the heart. One quick question, Where would you be, had your mother chosen an abortion? Perhaps it was not a good time for her, her health, her age her financial situation was not what it should have been? My mother was in all of those situations when she was carrying me - and yet both she and I am eternally grateful I am here.

I've been avoiding this thread mainly because I hate this debate.
But anyways my mother had an abortion with what would have been her first child just a few years before she had me. When she became pregnant with me (after having miscarriages and false pregnancies), she considered aborting me but at that time was prepared. Had she not been more prepared than before, I would not be here.

I truly believe its the mothers choice. It should not be used as birth control but sadly I knew a few girls in college who had quite a few because they just didn't learn.

 

[BuncyTheFrog]

BouncyTheFrog: what do you mean by "I'd be willing to wager that you're an outlier" outlier?

You illustrated what I said in the rest of the post I quoted. You had a good childhood, while many of those kids must lead terrible lives. I'm not saying that they would have wanted to be aborted, just that they're suffering because of their parents' inability to give them a safe, enjoyable life.

If the question is "what's an outlier", it's a deviation from the norm in a set of statistics. You could say I'm borrowing from Malcolm Gladwell's book by the same name.

 

[M0onkist]

I went and looked into the stories of the women Dr. Tiller helped: a lot of these stories were heartbreaking.

In 1994 my wife and I found out that she was pregnant. The pregnancy was difficult and unusually uncomfortable but her doctor repeatedly told her things were fine. Sometime early in the 8th month my wife, an RN who at the time was working in an infertility clinic asked the Dr. she was working for what he thought of her discomfort. He examined her and said that he couldn’t be certain but thought that she might be having twins. We were thrilled and couldn’t wait to get a new sonogram that hopefully would confirm his thoughts. Two days later our joy was turned to unspeakable sadness when the new sonogram showed conjoined twins. Conjoined twins alone is not what was so difficult but the way they were joined meant that at best only one child would survive the surgery to separate them and the survivor would more than likely live a brief and painful life filled with surgery and organ transplants. We were advised that our options were to deliver into the world a child who’s life would be filled with horrible pain and suffering or fly out to Wichita Kansas and to terminate the pregnancy under the direction of Dr. George Tiller.

We made an informed decision to go to Kansas. One can only imagine the pain borne by a woman who happily carries a child for 8 months only to find out near the end of term that the children were not to be and that she had to make the decision to terminate the pregnancy and go against everything she had been taught to believe was right. This was what my wife had to do. Dr. Tiller is a true American hero. The nightmare of our decision and the aftermath was only made bearable by the warmth and compassion of Dr. Tiller and his remarkable staff. Dr. Tiller understood that this decision was the most difficult thing that a woman could ever decide and he took the time to educate us and guide us along with the other two couples who at the time were being forced to make the same decision after discovering that they too were carrying children impacted by horrible fetal anomalies. I could describe in great detail the procedures and the pain and suffering that everyone is subjected to in these situations. However, that is not the point of the post. We can all imagine that this is not something that we would wish on anyone. The point is that the pain and suffering were only mitigated by the compassion and competence of Dr. George Tiller and his staff. We are all diminished today for a host of reasons but most of all because a man of great compassion and courage has been lost to the world.

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=22002

And here are some more tragic stories about women who've had to abort. I think they say a lot more than any arguments pro-lifers or pro-choicers can make:

http://www.aheartbreakingchoice.com/kansasstories.html

 

[ryelle]

They are good points M0onkist, and i do believe in the womens right to be able to do that.

Its just people abusing the ability to have an abortion that is something i cant get my head around

 

[M0onkist]

I totally agree with you, Ryelle.

Outside of medical reasons, I don't think I could abort a child. Mind you, I'm not terribly young nor relatively unfit to care for any child I bear (24, in long-term relationship with boyfriend). So I can't judge terrified teenage mothers who are 14 or 12 or whatever (I think the youngest was a 12 year old girl in Britain a good few years back - the Vatican sent her a stroller to try to get her to bear the children to term).

I mean, I'm not a huge fan of condoms either, but that just means I take the pill religiously, no mistakes, ever. Not allowed.

 

[Phyllis]

I believe this examples fit into the categorizations I said I up hold,, do you rrealize how few abortions are done for these reasons, very few!

 

[Vanessa]

We live in a world where currently, in every 24 hour period, over 15,000 children die of starvation and disease around the world. That is 105,000 children per week and 5,460,000 children per year. On average.
No, the majority of them are not white, the majority are not 'Christian', the majority are not in North America - all of which makes it very easy for us to turn our backs on them. Stinking, bloody apathy at it's best.
Those children are loved, those children are wanted, the death and agony and suffering of those children breaks the hearts of their parents and family. They are no different to any of us here, and deserve no less than any of us either.
If the Pro Life movement even spent a fraction of their efforts on trying to lessen or eliminate those 15,000 children from dying every single day - then I could maybe be convinced that their mandate was more about preventing the deaths of children and less about shoving their beliefs down everyone else's throats.