Issa the Bromocriptine Gal - Pic TWO for Interested/Ghouls

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lilspaz68

lilspaz68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
24,427
Location
Toronto, Canada, Earth
After discussion with Jorats and Kaia of HVRR in Michigan, my vet has found and has ordered Pituitary Tumour meds to try out on my Issa. Instead of just shrinking the tissue of the tumour with a steroid, until it grows too big even while using the steroid, these medications actually TREAT the tumour.

The 2 meds mentioned were Cabergoline which Jo said was very very expensive, and Bromocriptine which Kaia is using, which she said was more more reasonable. If this ends up working, a lot of other ratties may benefit from this experiment I proposed to my vet, and owners may not dread the signs of PT quite as much as before. I am not sure which med was ordered but obviously we are going ahead, and I am very excited and really hope this works not only for Issa but for others as well. :bliss:
 
Good for you and Issa!! And personally, THANK YOU! After going through PT with Cas, I would give anything for a drug that could treat the tumor, other than just slowing down the process. Hope this works well with your girl :)
 
Back in 2006 I was in contact with a member of the Australian Rodent Fanciers Society of WA. He and his vet were trying out these drugs on their rats. My vet was not keen on the idea and it was pretty much brushed aside. I'm glad to hear that finally it's given a chance. Last year we did try Cabergoline but we were not sure Lulu had a PT to begin with. My vet had success with Cabergoline and another rat with PT. At the time Cabergoline mixed by U of Guelph was costing us $400 per month. Way way too expensive.
Keep us updated and let us know the costs too. If it's come down considerably or if it's the Bromocriptine at a reasonable price, I'll be sure to bring it up to my vet.
Yay for Dr. Munn!!!!
 
My previous, previous, previous vet wanted to try Cabergoline on Pop when she was diagnosed. Unfortunately the test population was far to small (at that time the literature was saying it was a test population of 6 rats) and the results at that time did not show the promise I was looking for when spending that much per month. Have those numbers changed since then? I would be really interested in the research that has gone on since I last encountered any mention of this drug....

Actually, I will look it up right now... I'm at the university so I have access to the journals. Sometimes my brain doesn't work. If I find anything interesting I will post it here provided I can attach a PDF file... or something of equivalence.

ETA:
That was surprisingly easy... first thing that comes up is "In vivo effect of cabergoline, a dopamine agonist, on estrogen-induced rat pituitary tumors"

Here is the link.... I hope it works for you guys.
http://www.journalarchive.jst.go.jp/eng ... rtpage=153
then just click on the link that requests pdf format.

I havent read anything but the abstract, but sounds good
Should be an interesting read for those interested
 
Here is one from 1979... I am looking for one that is more recent then this.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 1357.x/pdf

Let me know if it works

Right now, that is the only one I can find that is available to me. The others would require a subscription to the journal. I will have to look around some more. There seems to be limited information on this one.

ETA: this one seems good... more recent too, but still super old :-/ Im trying to find more recent...
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/pr ... Doi=180041
 
Hmmm ... I spay my girls ...
Anything about pt that is not induced by estrogen?

I presently have 2 rats on pred that likely have pt another type of brain tumor.
 
Once I get home, I will post more, articles/summaries of articles that my vet sent me, and more information.

Just a quick spoiler it seems that PT's and mammary tumours are not estrogen based but are prolactin instead.

The medication ordered was the bromocriptine, and was ordered 2 days ago.
 
While going back and forth with my vet in the research phase of getting these medications he came back with a lot of interesting summaries from scientific studies and forwarded them on to me for interest’s sake. I asked for permission to post them.

First was his summary of the summary.

These drugs could be used in the following situations;
1. post mammary tumor removal ( if female and not spayed)
2. rats with neuro signs(vast majority PT) after ruling out otitis media (ear infection)
3. mammary mass cases that are not surgical candidates(eg. severe respiratory etc) or owner not willing to do surgery.
Remember it appears that most rats with mammary tumors will go on to develop PT if they live long enough! Maybe if we go more people to treat , we could get the cost down.

Pituitary tumors Rats-the research
- aging rats normal reproductive changes because of their aging hypothalamus
-their ovaries continue to be responsive(menopause does not occur)
-these aging rats go through an increase frequency of pseudopregnancy and subsequently have a rise in sex steroids
- these elevated sex hormone levels can induce mammary tumors and pituitary tumors
-pituitary tumors(called prolactinoma) produce to much prolactin
- rats with benign mammary tumors have been found to have hyperprolactinemia and necropsy surveys have shown that most rats with benign mammary tumors have the beginnings of pituitary tumors (note that pituitary tumors usually begin to cause problems at 24 months)
-treating rats with mammary tumors with neutering or with dopamine agonists could prevent fatal pituitary tumors
- neutering male and female rats significantly decrease the incidence of pituitary and mammary tumors.
-dopamine agonists
1-BROMOCRIPTINE (Parlodel)- suppresses prolactin and shrinks pituitary tumors, has been known to cause gi upset,headache,nausea and dizziness in humans,20% of humans don't tolerate this drug or experience tumor resistance.
2-CABERGOLINE (Dostinex) -better tolerated with fewer side effects,give every 3 days

So we were discussing this today about the medication, and the pituitary and mammary tumours and how they are not estrogen driven but instead by prolactin the hormone produced by the pituitary tumour. So the inhibitor Tamoxifen won’t work in rats to help prevent tumours and this might work very well instead. :joy:

The price is reasonable compared to the insane Cabergoline which can cost $80 for 8 pills! Dr Munn also had the human version shipped in. As soon as you compound it the price is tripled, so we got the pills instead. We are both very excited about this, with one slight sour note.

Issa will have to come off the dex for her symptoms to return so Dr Munn can verify the PT. I worry because sometimes they regress and once you get them back on the steroid therapy they never get quite back to that level of wellness again.

I have Issa on dex every 2nd day, I am going to let her go to Day 3 and see how much she regresses, and how quickly, before deciding whether I will be able to do this safely.
 
Would this be worth while to try in a rat with mammary tumors?

Hoefully she will respond! That would be so great for all of us!

There is so much potential here, I really hope that things work out :)
 
crumbilina said:
Would this be worth while to try in a rat with mammary tumors?

Hoefully she will respond! That would be so great for all of us!

There is so much potential here, I really hope that things work out :)
Click to expand...

I think it might help. I have one girl here who has a very large tumour but i think its too late for her. Ohhh Truffle maybe? Her tumor is recurring. I should ask.
 
Hummmm this is something to think about then

Its crazy that a lot of the research conducted with this drug was done in the 1970s and 1980s and we are just starting to take advantage of it now... Too bad really. If they had kept up the research and trials imagine where we would be today!

Wishing Issa the best of luck! Give her a nice big rattie hug from all the ratties here (if she likes those :giggle:) Can't wait to see what happens!!!
 
- neutering male and female rats significantly decrease the incidence of pituitary and mammary tumors.
Click to expand...

Did he have peer reviewed (or even non reviewed!) literature that said neutering males significantly decreases pituitary tumors? Cause, I look and look and look, and find the significant decreases with spays, but most literature I find lists the decrease in tumors in males due to neutering at something like 3%... Just curious!
 
This is really cool. I hope it works! We have dealt with PT a lot here it'd be nice to know there are some meds that will actually help treat this.
 

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