Is this ethical or concerning?

[trihkal]

Fostered: Dumbo Black Eyed Siamese (BES) - Reserved Inv# 204
Fostered: Dumbo Black Eyed Marten - Available!


*Fostered babies were born here, but the mother only had 2 babies. I chose to foster them in with this litter. They were born on the same day and had a much more social upbringing this way. They were raised by Madonna as one of her own.

I found this here. http://www.atlantisrattery.com/july-8-2014.html

I have never heard another breeder do this for that reason. Would ethical breeders do this?

 

[jorats]

I don't know if it's something breeders do on purpose but I have seen mom rats adopt other babies as their own to raise due to unfortunate circumstances.

 

[trihkal]

Right. I do know and respect when they do that. It's fortunate they can do that when necessary but I'm not sure how I feel about choosing to do that without a good reason.

 

[lilspaz68]

Not so ethical breeders will do this to even out the pups in 2 litters, ethical breeders will do this if there's a real issue with one litter and the other female is able to take on the babies (nursing issues, sick mom, dead mom, etc)

My guess is the mom of this fostered litter will be bred back quickly. She's throwing Marten's and BES (Martins were ONLY available in Germany until this import, ethical breeders in the US cannot get their hands on them and will be a big cash cow. She's obviously keeping the red-eyed martins over the black-eyed.) Most breeders will work with a new line for several generations but not this one. BES are very very rare in Ontario, so they also are a cash crop.

IF there was a single baby, I would definitely give a pass on fostering with another litter, but 2 babies in one litter are no big deal, they will socialize with each other. This is not exactly ethical IMO.

 

[BlueSkyy]

She should have moved some babies from a huge litter over to the mom with only two to give the mom with the huge litter a break. Or, you know, not breed them in the first place.

What the heck is a martin? (Other than the actual animal?)

 

[trihkal]

My guess is the mom of this fostered litter will be bred back quickly. She's throwing Marten's and BES (Martins were ONLY available in Germany until this import, ethical breeders in the US cannot get their hands on them and will be a big cash cow. She's obviously keeping the red-eyed martins over the black-eyed.) Most breeders will work with a new line for several generations but not this one. BES are very very rare in Ontario, so they also are a cash crop.

IF there was a single baby, I would definitely give a pass on fostering with another litter, but 2 babies in one litter are no big deal, they will socialize with each other. This is not exactly ethical IMO.

That explains why a byb would go through the trouble of importing from Europe. How unfortunate. Martens are going for up to $40. Of course she wants more. If she has 5 that's $200 and that's a small litter. With 10 that's $400.

She should have moved some babies from a huge litter over to the mom with only two to give the mom with the huge litter a break. Or, you know, not breed them in the first place.

What the heck is a martin? (Other than the actual animal?)

I know! Like a mom with 16 needs another 2 babies to care for.

Marten: http://ratvarieties.com/type/marten/
Known as

 

[Tylerwaugh]

That explains why a byb would go through the trouble of importing from Europe. How unfortunate. Martens are going for up to $40. Of course she wants more. If she has 5 that's $200 and that's a small litter. With 10 that's $400.



I know! Like a mom with 16 needs another 2 babies to care for.

Marten: http://ratvarieties.com/type/marten/
Known as

If the other mom had 16 babies it wouldve made more sense to take some from her and give them to the mom with only two than the other way around. But less money that way because they can breed the expensive mom again. -_-

 

[SQ]

Completely unethical .... and wrong on every level!!! The excuse she uses is laughable and ridiculous.
Poor mama losing her babies
The only time babies are given to a different mother is when there is a problem such as lives at risk, and when the foster mama is able to handle the extra babies.
The two babies would have been fine with their own mama
If any babies were fostered, it should have been 4 or 5 babies from the foster mother's litter. With 16 babies she already had a lot to deal with, a lot of babies to feed and care for. Rats only have 12 nipples so if any babies were to be fostered, it should have been 4 or 5 of her babies.

btw, as far as I know, there are No ethical rat breeders in Canada, - breeding solely for health and lifespan, tracking health and lifespan over generations, only breeding a rat a few times, etc

 

[trihkal]

Completely unethical .... and wrong on every level!!! The excuse she uses is laughable and ridiculous.
Poor mama losing her babies
The only time babies are given to a different mother is when there is a problem such as lives at risk, and when the foster mama is able to handle the extra babies.
The two babies would have been fine with their own mama
If any babies were fostered, it should have been 4 or 5 babies from the foster mother's litter. With 16 babies she already had a lot to deal with, a lot of babies to feed and care for. Rats only have 12 nipples so if any babies were to be fostered, it should have been 4 or 5 of her babies.

btw, as far as I know, there are No ethical rat breeders in Canada, - breeding solely for health and lifespan, tracking health and lifespan over generations, only breeding a rat a few times, etc

Yes I did know that there are no ethical breeders in Canada. I had wanted to go to one but now I'm rescuing since there clearly aren't any. I did know for other reasons that Atlantis wasn't a good rattery.

I do know that sometimes due to tragedies a foster mom is necessary but this specific case seemed so wrong to me for all the reasons you mentioned so I wanted to hear your opinions.

 

[NeeNee]

btw, as far as I know, there are No ethical rat breeders in Canada, - breeding solely for health and lifespan, tracking health and lifespan over generations, only breeding a rat a few times, etc

Yes I did know that there are no ethical breeders in Canada. I had wanted to go to one but now I'm rescuing since there clearly aren't any. I did know for other reasons that Atlantis wasn't a good rattery.

The only rattery that is ethical seems to be Rattuity in Brampton. She neither over breeds, nor breeds only for money. She truly cares about the lives of her rats.

 

[SQ]

The only rattery that is ethical seems to be Rattuity in Brampton. She neither over breeds, nor breeds only for money. She truly cares about the lives of her rats.

You can pm me her site so I can check it out. There are many many things that go into making a rattery ethical.

 

[trihkal]

SQ i right there is a lot that goes into being an ethical rat breeder. Based just off of her site it's hard to know for sure. I'm not seeing any red flags but there's lots of information missing which could be signs of red flags or it could all remain ethical. It's just hard to know based off just their website. Have you worked with this rattery before?

 

[lilspaz68]

I know Lisa, I like her, and I consider her ethical and responsible. Her website is pretty bare but if you have questions just ask her. It may not be a popular opinion but I do believe that without someone working on improving the rats we have in Ontario, they are just going to get worse and worse. Having seen a ton of rescue rats over the years, I have seen a disturbing trend to poorer health, poorer conformation (which can lead to health issues), and more issues with temperament from the careless and mass breeding going on now.

 

[trihkal]

I know Lisa, I like her, and I consider her ethical and responsible. Her website is pretty bare but if you have questions just ask her. It may not be a popular opinion but I do believe that without someone working on improving the rats we have in Ontario, they are just going to get worse and worse. Having seen a ton of rescue rats over the years, I have seen a disturbing trend to poorer health, poorer conformation (which can lead to health issues), and more issues with temperament from the careless and mass breeding going on now.

I did email her to ask some questions. I could ask her if she minds me sharing the answers if anyone is interested Everything I did read on her site looks good to me.

Personally I am a lover of all rats and rats as a species. I think it's important to have ethical breeders to better the species. If all breeders were ethical we wouldn't be dealing with some of the problems we are dealing with today.