Intros-How far do I let the squabbling go? Success!

Shop with us on Ebay
Advertise with us
Fins us on Amazon
The Rat Shack Forum

Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joanne

Joanne

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
11,989
Location
Nova Scotia, Canada
So here's the background:
I have four older rats - everyone will be two by the end of January.
I adopted four babies.
The babies have been with me for approx 6 weeks now.
The older rats have been able to smell the babies for quite some time, and I have been doing intros on neutral ground for two weeks (maybe longer).
Everyone is neutered/spayed.
Once in a while I try to move playtime to non-neutral territory. An example of what happens is that the young'un is sitting next to the adult rat, they may be a bit tense. The little one goes to leave, and the older rat bites their butt or their foot/leg.
When this happens I scruff the older rat (only when I can do it immediately) and they scream like I'm murdering them and struggle.
If there are any fights, I pretty much break it up right away before it can escalate or someone gets hurt.
The question is, am I interfering too much? Should I let things go further, letting them settle it on their own?
Any time I have them on non-neutral ground, things escalate.
I know, "patience, grasshopper", but it seems like it's taking an awful long time...
 
I do not like intros...I have been lucky and had very easy ones so far....so I am not really sure what to say. I know you do have to let them work it out a bit on their own (which is hard for me as a dog person, only one leader in my pack...and I don't allow any scuffles LOL)
But with rats I am not part of their group....I don't live with them in their cage. So I have to let them work things out for themselves.
I am sure someone with more experience with this will offer better advice then me....but I would think...that after this much time in neutural area they could be spending days together. If not living with one another....
 
I have done a few intro's ..only one that has a been tense. My rule is do not interupt unless you see blood. Squeaks and squables are normal ..they are only working their dominances out.

Edit: I have done intros: young to old, old to old ..none of them took any more than 5 days ..most worked after one day! ..but rats here are very calm lol
 
If a rat starts to show signs of aggression such as puffy hair, marking by rubbing its side against things, pushing another with its butt or side, mounting another, etc I take the aggressive rat out and cuddle them until thety are feeling better and then put them back.

Usually if there is aggression in a nonneutral space, it means they need to spend a lot more time in neutral territory.
 
SQ said:
If a rat starts to show signs of aggression such as puffy hair, marking by rubbing its side against things, pushing another with its butt or side, mounting another, etc I take the aggressive rat out and cuddle them until thety are feeling better and then put them back.

Usually if there is aggression in a nonneutral space, it means they need to spend a lot more time in neutral territory.
Click to expand...


You cuddle the aggressive rat? Just wondering since Percy acts like that and I am trying to get these intros working between him and Baxter.
 
I feel your pain. I have two one year old males, and am working to intro four juvenile males, all are intact.

I also agree, that as long as no one is bleeding, it's fine. My one concern is that you say the big ones are trying to bite butts and back legs, which I thought might be more aggressive behavior in rats than other kinds of tussling. But I don't know for sure, and don't take my word on it.


I've had my rats for 6 weeks, and I've been working on intros for 15 days. Feel free to follow along with my progress too, it may give you ideas or encouragement. Yours surely gives /me/ some (yay, I'm not alone!).

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22756
 
Kimber said:
SQ said:
If a rat starts to show signs of aggression such as puffy hair, marking by rubbing its side against things, pushing another with its butt or side, mounting another, etc I take the aggressive rat out and cuddle them until thety are feeling better and then put them back.

Usually if there is aggression in a nonneutral space, it means they need to spend a lot more time in neutral territory.
Click to expand...


You cuddle the aggressive rat? Just wondering since Percy acts like that and I am trying to get these intros working between him and Baxter.
Click to expand...

You can cuddle the aggressive rat, so long as you are not nurturing the aggression but helping him calm down because after all, it's the aggressive rat who is having stress related issues.

Joanne, from what you've described, that's normal, let them do that. The older rat must take control of the situation or the babies will and you don't want that, you want a happy healthy colony.
What is the male/female ratio?
 
jorats said:
Joanne, from what you've described, that's normal, let them do that. The older rat must take control of the situation or the babies will and you don't want that, you want a happy healthy colony.
What is the male/female ratio?
Click to expand...
The older rats are 3 females and one male.
The younger rats are 2 females and 2 males.
The only rat that gets along seamlessly with everyone is Jazzy, the mother of the three older rats.

I think I am going to have to let them duke it out some more. I just hate to leave it because there has already been a small amount of bloodshed with nipped toes and a bloody nose, but that was through the cage bars, which seems to make it worse.
 
Cage bars encounters are always bad and not an indication of how face to face meet ups will go.
If you do feel that it's going to far, you can intervene, but try it hold off unless you see a rat ball fight or you see the rats around the scuffle become very tense and stressed.
When you question if an altercation is serious, watch the rats around...they will tell you if that was serious and warrants intervention.
 
Day 2 of intros on non-neutral territory...
We've had a few squabbles, but so far no blood (fingers crossed).
The play area is actually the outside of the Critter Nation. They are scared to be away from the cage (I have cats) so I have closed the doors and they climb on the outside of it. It's really great exercise, and they can't really get into a good 'rat ball' when they're hanging onto the cage.
Once they are living together, I will leave the door open so they can go in and out.
Just heard an extended cry - somebody got hurt. Still no blood.... *sigh* Tia is 'guarding' the top of the cage. Some time out in my sleeve now...
 
Squeaking usually doesn't mean pain, it means protesting.
But, intros might be slow if they are allowed around the cage as they will be territorial.
 
jorats said:
Squeaking usually doesn't mean pain, it means protesting.
But, intros might be slow if they are allowed around the cage as they will be territorial.
Click to expand...
This squeaking has a very different quality to it, and they definitely react like they're hurt. Sabrina made the same cry when her nose got bitten. :(
The problem is, there are two types of play areas. Any other area besides the cage is neutral. They get along quite easily in those areas. The outside of the cage is the only non-neutral play area. So.....
The good news is that the older rats get tired of going up and down the outside of the cage, and just camp out after a while. When miss cranky pants starts defending the top of the cage, I move her to the bottom, so she has to climb up to the top again. Heheheh. :cheeky:
 
I just did baby to adult intros, I was told babies are notorious screamers. They screamed bloody murder when my girls even just tried to move them lol. Really don't worry about the squeaks, like others said, no signs of aggression, let them at it.

Good luck, I hate intros! I have to do them all the time too :(
 
Can you cover the cage, as to not allow them to climb? Use cardboard boxes around the cage or something?
It's best to have the babies on the ground with the oldies so they are constantly around each other.
 
I tried having them in the same room but put a pad on one side of the cage and a box on the other to block access. They still wanted to get to the cage so bad they kept trying to jump over the pad (unsuccessfully) but then found where the two parts met, and squeezed through there. The only way to have them in the room but not on the cage is to get/make a corral. But then they would be in a neutral play area anyway, so they could just as easily be in the other small room. And then we would never get to the non-neutral area...
Know what I mean? The cage IS their play area (the outside of it.) They won't hang out and play anywhere else - they just hide. The scent of cat always keeps them wary and alert.
 
A corral in the same room is not neutral area. My rats definitely do not treat it as such, they know where they are.

Or, you could just block the cage off a little better. They will eventually give up. I block it off with hardboard, it's cheap and good to have around for situations like this.or, bring the cage out of the room, I don't know if that is possible.

Sorry, I know how frustrating it is.
 
The cage WILL fit out the doorway, I've tried it before. Hmmm, maybe I'll try and move the cage out, and put their play stuff in the spot where the cage was...
 

Latest posts

Back
Top