Intro questions, 2 news girls to 4 residents

[Petunia]

cross posted so if you replied on FB no need to reply here too lol
Back story- got 2 new girls, Sage and Lady (Sage is ~ 18 mos, Lady's age is unknown but she's at least a year old)
My resident girls include a 2yr old Pippa, a possibly 2yr old Peanut, and two 8mos old girlies PattyCake and Emma
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I have had to do intros in non neutral territory (the 'rat room', cleaned out and sectioned off with just a very few toys)
due to the fact that I've got girls who think they can fly! LOL

so far I've done two sessions and the only issue we've had is Sage is a bit of a bully- She puffs up and runs over to the other girls, pushes against their sides, etc. I have been doing time outs with her which seems to be helping.

I'd really like to get all 6 girls in the same cage asap, but I don't want to rush it and have someone end up hurt.
Soooo, long question slightly shortened, do I need to be at the point where Sage no longer needs ANY time outs, or is it ok to move forward as long as she's not hurting anyone? No one gets into any serious fights, although if you heard Lady squeal, you'd think she was dying ROFL she screams if someone accidentally brushes up against her when running past. Thanks in advance!

 

[jorats]

What we need to remember is that their main cage is a single CN. So 6 girls are fine in a single CN but we want them to really get a long. But... it could be that Sage simply needs to start living with the girls for her to stop her obnoxious behaviour. If only the other girls would flip her and set her straight which that might only happen once they are all living together. You could give it a try and keep doing time outs for Sage. If you see there is too much discord in the cage, take a step back again.

 

[Petunia]

Ok thanks Jo,
that's what I was thinking, cuz when Butter and Peanut were added to the group, I was still needing to do time outs with Patty but as soon as they were all together, things settled down.
I hope that happens with these girls.


but...........yesterday's session did not go well at all- Patty was in her bully mood too, so I had Sage and Patty going at it every chance they got, and I didn't know which one to put in time out (only have the one carrier, no other safe place to use as for time outs) they both ended up in alternating time outs. and then it was hard to find a time to end on an "up" note, as the rest of the bunch was on edge from the scuffles.

I noticed last night that Patty got a tiny bite or scrape on the side of her neck.
:/

There was also a scuffle with four rats in one corner;
I think it started with Sage and Patty pushing each other around, but Peanut and Lady were in that same corner, so they were kind of bouncing off one another, all on edge and not knowing who did what to whom kind of thing. Peanut's like Don't start with me Lady I was just minding my own business looking for the lab blocks I stashed here earlier, and Patty is so wound up she's ready to box anyone who gets near her, and Sage was just puffed up and wanting everyone to submit to her LOL omg I laughed about it afterward but at the time it was tough to break it all up.

(Emma rarely gets into any scuffles with anyone, and Pippa is the oldest of the group, no one ever bothers her and she's not too interested in what anyone else is doing either)

so now I'm thinking, I'll go back to a much smaller area, to simulate them all having to live in closer quarters...
say, perhaps one of my deep totes?
something where I can reach them all but they can't get out easily- or at all. lol Little escape artists that they are.

Bathtub is not safe for me or them, so that's out.
Table top is stressful for me cuz so many of them try to jump off- out of the 6, at least 4 are willing to risk injury to jump off the table, the nutballs :/


I do hope to get them all in one cage soon though, because doing two play sessions a day is hard. Sage and Lady seem to need at least 2 hrs each time, and Patty and Emma, being the youngest, also want a long play time.
only Pippa and Peanut will put themselves back for a nap after an hour.

I know I could limit them to just an hour, but then I'd be stressed out, feeling bad for them.
I need to find things I can do while in the rat room. These girls interact very little with me, so it can get kinda boring for me and it's a big chunk of time to be doing next to nothing.

 

[jorats]

I also want to add that ups and downs are very normal, especially when you are going from neutral to familiar.
But like we talked about, taking a break is also a good thing. Wait a week or two and start again. Hang in there!
Also, the small gash on the neck, that's not really aggression, so don't worry about that.

 

[SterlingRats0408]

Whenever I have a singular repeat issue like the side stepping I move forward to change their interaction. If it's just the puffing and displays and it is always the same then time to switch it up. Sometimes I'll put them in a cage that doesn't belong to anyone. Its still semi neutral but enclosed so she have more feeling of 'territory' and therefore may move forward or change how she relates to the other girls.

No matter what you try I hope it works out. Sometimes with the ones that just want to act tough forcing them closer to each other can make them work it out a little faster.

I just had to do that with Caesar and the little boys. He was acting very shy and would avoid approaching the little boys. And Benji took that chance to assert being the dominant one. After a week of Caesar just avoiding Benji and whining anytime he came close I made their space smaller so Caesar didn't have as much hiding space away from them and Benji settled down on the assertion and now they all live & sleep together happily. I needed the cage and Caesar needed the push.