I'm thinking about switching to a home made diet. Hear me out!

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KatTheHippie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
1,045
Location
Long Island, New York
First off, please, no harsh scolding, and hear me out before commenting. I would love to hear opinions, but I would also like to keep things civil.

When I got my first group of rats, it was 11 years ago. When I researched, I heard about lab blocks, but most of the things I read seemed icky, and all of the things that I read about home made mixes seemed great. So my first group of 4,and the following group of 7 were all fed diets that I made myself. In that group, most were rescues, who originated from the pet store before making their way to me, so I know luck was a big factor in their genetics. Either way, most of my rats lived to 3 or older, and none of my 5 girls developed any tumors.

After those guys, I had a year long gap before I adopted any more rats, because of school. When I finally brought Alice home, it had been quite a while, so I decided to do some more research and see what changed. When I found the rat shack, everyone preached about lab blocks, and it made sense. Complete nutrition, no worries about missing suppliments, and much easier to just order one thing, other than shopping around for all of the other things I needed for mixes. Since then, I've had 2 groups. My group of girls (5) and my group of boys (10, though not all lived at the same time, some have passed and some have been added) Once again, I know that their genetics are completely unknown, and can definitely come into play since all are rescues.

But I've noticed that they've been living much shorter lives. Most pass around the age of 2, if they even make it that far. Out of my girls, 2 developed numerous mammary tumors, and one a pituitary tumor. Alice passed at 2 years old after battling pneumonia (Probably from living on pine before I got her) and Rhydian died on the operating table. But I don't count her in this, since she was wild and had completely different genetics.

Of my group of boys, I've had 2 develop tumors (Kreacher, who developed a crazy amount of abdominal tumors which turned necrotic and resulted in him being put down. He was 3 months old. And Cooper, who just passed recently, who had a mammary tumor on his lower abdomen. He was barely 2) I've had at least one more pituitary tumor (Meeloh for sure, he was a year and a half, and Edgar I'm pretty sure but it could have been something else. He was 2.) Then Igor just suddenly fell ill and passed extremely quickly, he was 2.

I know it could just be coincidence. But I'm willing to experiment if it could mean my babies live healthier, longer lives. Dover's 3 now, and I'm constantly worried that something may happen to him. Toby and Cheswyck are a year and a half, and Ivan's 2. My babies, Ozzy and Dio, are about 8 weeks now. I plan on doing a LOT of research over the next few weeks/months, and have been reccomended a book called The Scuttling Gourmet, which I'll be getting my hands on soon. I'm not making any changes until I'm well versed in everything.

I know that rats tend to pick out their favorite bits of food to eat first, then leave the rest for later, but with the diet I'm most interested in, I've heard from most owners that their rats eat the whole mix no problem. Obviously, I would still give veggies and fruits often as well. I've been seeing a lot of talk about how processed blocks are, and how they've been developed to make sure rats in experiments are on a consistent diet so that it won't effect test results. I think doing this may really benefit my babies.

I'd be glad to talk about my results when switching. It will probably be a very long term thing, since I mostly want to switch to see if it helps with longevity and less illness, so updates will most likely be every few months. I also want to say now, that if you are considering a home made mix, you REALLY NEED TO RESEARCH! You can't just throw things together and think that's fine, you really need to take into account a lot of different variables and percentages, and make sure that you have the time and patience to dedicate to making sure your mixes offer everything that they need.
 
I've always wanted to try this, as I have a few rats that avoid blocks as nuch as possible. But I don't have the knowledge and fear I would do it wrong. When you figure it out do you mind sharing the breakdown of your mix? I'd be interested in seeing their needs through ingredients
 
I have nothing against properly researched homemade diets although to make an adequate one you are going to spend much more on ingredients than you spend on lab blocks. I think genetics plays a much larger role in their life spans than their food (unless you are feeding them garbage of course). Over the past 10 years back yard breeders and breeding mills have begun to breed out of control so the amount of inbreeding and passing on of horrible genetics has greatly increased and led to a decrease in life spans. I would love for you to prove that wrong and will be very interested to hear your findings.
 
I've always wanted to try this, as I have a few rats that avoid blocks as nuch as possible. But I don't have the knowledge and fear I would do it wrong. When you figure it out do you mind sharing the breakdown of your mix? I'd be interested in seeing their needs through ingredients


I will definitely be sure to post that here when I'm finishing up my research and begin making my own mix :)
 
I have nothing against properly researched homemade diets although to make an adequate one you are going to spend much more on ingredients than you spend on lab blocks. I think genetics plays a much larger role in their life spans than their food (unless you are feeding them garbage of course). Over the past 10 years back yard breeders and breeding mills have begun to breed out of control so the amount of inbreeding and passing on of horrible genetics has greatly increased and led to a decrease in life spans. I would love for you to prove that wrong and will be very interested to hear your findings.


I believe food can be very important. The correct diets and suppliments, though they won't necessarily cure anything, could definitely help keep genetic diseases in check. Like lessening protein intake for kidney disease, and baby food diets for megacolon sufferers. I know it won't help everything, and I don't expect my rats to never ever get ill again, but I'm really really hoping that it will help them live longer, healthier lives. I really can't stand back yard breeders..
 
Diet can make or break humans, regardless of genetics. I imagine it works for rats too. I often feel that Oxbow "isn't enough" because we don't feed ourselves that way... I imagine a lot of the good oils, vitamins, nutrients, etc. get broken down and/or lost during the baking procedure used to cook the blocks.
 
So, you won't be feeding anything like this? LOL That is what we were given with our last 4 adoptees - I don't think they miss it.

I would definitely be interested in what your results are. Best of luck...

Oh my god, wow, that's horrible. I can't stand those people that think tossing their rats any expired things in their pantry is good enough.
 
Diet can make or break humans, regardless of genetics. I imagine it works for rats too. I often feel that Oxbow "isn't enough" because we don't feed ourselves that way... I imagine a lot of the good oils, vitamins, nutrients, etc. get broken down and/or lost during the baking procedure used to cook the blocks.

Exactly my thinking! Plus, rats are natural foragers, and I've been reading about a lot of people's rats enjoying digging through their mix. And sure, they'll eat their favorite parts first, but as long as there's something in it that each rat likes, that provides the proper nutrients to allow them to thrive, then there's nothing wrong with that. I usually eat my favorite part of the meal first too, but I always eat atleast some of the other things on the plate after. Also, I've been reading that a lot of people believe that rats gather nutrients on a weekly, rather than daily basis, and how different times of the year and different temperatures effect them as well, so their food should be adjusted accordingly around those times to help their little bodies.
 
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I like the idea of a freshly made diet but I am very wary of them eating the higher fat, higher calorie "tastier" bits first and then not wanting to eat anything else
or of one rat hogging all the tasty bits, or one rat eating all of some other part of the food, so that the others don't get enough. you've got your rats who love greens and others that wont' touch the stuff. rats who like carrots and those who will only eat peas. etc etc

I have one boy now who has an acquired taste for all things sweet/fatty/salty (from his diet in his previous home where he ate these things instead of lab blocks: cereals, sweet peas, corn, pumpkin seeds, fish, eggs, noodles, rice, yogurt, stir fry greens (anything leafy cooked in a little bit oil with a dash to salt and sugar), instant potato, squash

He was not eating any lab blocks when I got him. Now that I've got two young girls who get treats to learn their names etc, he's back to wanting just treats and holding out for only the tastiest stuff. Sadly most of the tastiest things turn out to be the least healthy.

rats, like humans, prefer sugar, fat and salt. unlike humans, they can't read the nutritional info on the side of a box of cheerios so they don't know that it's not what they should be eating every day.

you can give them all the healthiest foods but if they refuse to eat something that has essential nutrients for that species, or if one rat hogs all of that part of the food, you're going to end up with a well fed rat or an over fed rat and one whose diet is deficient

a fresh diet seems great in theory but I can see a lot of problems with it in practice. I still hope there's a way for it to work though,

cuz I've got a rat who doesn't want to eat lab blocks, and who is now turning his nose up at veggies that he liked before, ever since I let him have some oatmeal with soy milk and walnuts in it :(
 
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I think a lot of the "hoarding" we see in rats comes when we put too much food out. They see the extra sitting there, out in the open, and the desire to hide it for later comes into play. I imagine feeding more often (3 - 5 times per day?) with only what they'll eat would cut back on the hoarding.

Of course there'd have to be an auto-feeder for nighttime feedings?
 
I have a friend who feeds her rats a homemade diet, and we both find it interesting how healthy her rats are compared to mine. Hers rarely (almost never) get sick, and live to be 3 years at least. Mine live 2.5 at most, and struggle with health conditions for the last year of their lives.

That being said, my friend made me curious about this "block" that is actually homemade and is more like a vitamin supplement, to feed along with a homemade diet. It just ensures that your rats get what they need, so they can snack on other things without the human worrying "did they get enough vitamin d? what about b12?" etc.

Here is the link: http://www.henryspets.com/rat-and-mouse-blocks/

I also stray towards feeding mostly human foods. My rats will always get a healthy treat along with their blocks, about three times a day. I still feed blocks because I have that uncertainty about them getting all their nutrients, but it's definitely doable without them if you research it heavily.
 
hi Katie and gang! I think thats an awesome idea, I've recently been giving my little guys some of my shake in the morning which is full of greens and other great things, I even give them something from the juicer every now and then.
I think your idea is great. The unfortunately test on rats for a reason, the have a similar make up to humans.
I just watched this documentary that talked about a study done on rats (i know im not suppose to talk about this but I promise its nothing that wont help our minds grow) one set of rats were fed a complete diet but had over 5% protein in it, the seond set of rats were fed primarily a vegetable based diet.
The first group of rats developed tumors within the first 1.5 years, and the second group did not.
Now the proteins they were testing were mainly milks and animal byproduct protein the numbers and amounts are vague in my head but I remember thinking hmmm oxbow is at a 15% of crude protein I know it is mainly soy and fish, but now a days soy is being pumped out just as fast as corn
I've been watching many documentaries and my boyfriend is reading many studies on health and we have started giving more fresh food mainly veggies and cut back on their kibble just a tad in the mornings to.
I would love to get a copy of your diet for your ratties as you go along and research I would love to also try this.
 
Fumblesquid that supplement has gotta have a lot of protein and fat in it.
I'd be worried about giving that to my rats as they tend to be on the heavy side. :/


the first ingredient is pecans, of course they think it's a treat hahahahaha, it is!
the next 3 ingredients are high protein.
I don't see any chromium, rats need a lot of that, as far as I know. hmm. I'd rather supplement with whole foods like leafy greens and apples and carrots etc.


Ingredients: Pecans, whey protein isolate, wheat protein isolate, cracked wheat, rice bran, wheat flour, oat bran, dried whole eggs, tri-calcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, lecithin, potassium chloride, baking powder, phylloquinone (vitamin K), selenium, magnesium oxide, cholcalciferol (vitamin D3), folic acid, iodine, ferrous sulfate (iron), zinc, copper glycinate chelate, molybdenum, manganese, d-alpha tocopheryl succinate (vitamin E), vitamin A (60% beta-carotene; 40% retinyl palmitate), pantothenic acid, niacin (vitamin B-3), riboflavin (vitamin B-2), pyroxidine hydrochloride (vitamin B-6), thiamin (vitamin B-1), cyanocobalamin (vitamin B-12), biotin.
 
I believe food can be very important. The correct diets and suppliments, though they won't necessarily cure anything, could definitely help keep genetic diseases in check. Like lessening protein intake for kidney disease, and baby food diets for megacolon sufferers. I know it won't help everything, and I don't expect my rats to never ever get ill again, but I'm really really hoping that it will help them live longer, healthier lives. I really can't stand back yard breeders..

Sorry to clarify - I do agree food is important however IMO I don't think the difference between a good lab block and a homemade diet is going to be very drastic in life span and illness. Harlan lab locks are made to be used in experiments which means while they may not be perfect they are pretty darn good.
 
While studying, I've also found that some people believe it's better to give your rats a break from food for a few hours when they first wake up. That gets their metabolisms going, and they're more likely to eat their food right then, instead of hoarding it. It's also better to give them a portion of food that you know will last for most of a day (minus those few hours before they're fed again) so that will decrease hoarding too. And if you have a large group, either an elongated, more rectangular or oval shaped bowl, or more than one food bowl, will keep one rat from grabbing all his favorite parts before the others can get some too. I've been reading a lot of different peoples recipes, and they're really interesting. I'm especially interested in the ones that lean more towards oldies, with less protein, to help keep their kidneys in tip top shape, and hopefully elongate their lives.

And I was wondering, too, since I have a diverse group of ages (3,2,1,8 weeks) about making sure my little guys would get enough protein to grow. The best way to make sure of that, is to offer them treats that are a little higher in protein, while offering the other boys snacks that are lower. It makes a lot of sense.

I'm currently in Pennsylvania again for my boyfriend's college graduation, I'll be here for another week or so, but once the boys and I are back in New York and settled in, I'm going to start work on formulating their diet. I already have a lot in mind, I'll post the recipe when I make it, along with where I got the ingredients if anyone is interested :)
 
hey katie is the fcbk page from Ratgirl44 on youtube? I dont have facebook so unfortunately i couldnt see the link, I know i know im the only person on earth who does not have fcbk hahaha
 
A must read for anyone thinking of feeding a homemade diet
http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17987

If you don't feed blocks, it will be extremely expensive to feed a good healthy diet to rats.
That makes it impossible for most of us to switch from using blocks as the staple.

You will want to make sure not to feed processed food, not to feed GMOs, and to only feed organic.

Given research on nutrition in humans and animals, you will want to feed them a whole food plant based diet that does not contain any animal products.
http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/

A good homemade whole food plant based diet that meets their nutritional needs would be much better then feeding lab blocks since lab blocks contain GMOs.

Good luck
 
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