I have babies!!...but I don't know what to do with them-Pics

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Bamboo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
1,158
Location
Ottawa, ON
Baby frogs, that is...

So my grandmother stopped by today and she brought with her 4 young tadpoles and a small snail. Apparently, one of her co-workers found a bunch of frog eggs in her watergarden. She didn't want them in there, but she said she didn't have the heart to kill them, so she brought them in the house. When they hatched she fed them and played with them. However, she doesn't want to keep them, and apparently my grandmother had been talking about how she and my 5 year old cousin went on a nature walk a few weeks ago and he really liked seeing the frogs. I guess this lady decided that my cousin should have a few tadpoles, so she brought them into work with her in a plastic bag and left them with my grandmother. She knows that my cousin isn't allowed to have pets, so she didn't know what to do with them. I guess she figured that I would know what to do with them, so she bought a goldfish kit and brought them out to me.

...but now I don't know what to do. These are obviously wild-born babies, but they've been treated as pets their whole life. I've been trying to replicate a natural enviroment, but they don't quite seem to get it. They've been hand fed all their life, so now everytime I walk by they swim to the top, like fish do expecting to be fed. They don't seem to understand the concept of the algae I put in there from them to eat. The lady told my grandmother not to worry, because they're very tame...and they are. They're not scared of me at all, like they should be...in fact, like I said, they sort of depend on me coming around. I was thinking of calling Natural Resources, but I don't know what they can do if they've been tamed. I don't want them to be "forced" back into the wild if they're just going to die because they don't know how to find they're own food. That doesn't seem right to me...humans created this problem, so we should be the ones to fix it by making sure they live long, happy lives. I also don't want to get my grandmother, her friend or myself in trouble for harvesting and keeping a native species as a pet.

Either way, they're cute little buggers, that's for sure :) I've been looking through diffrent websites, trying to figure out what species they are...they sort of look like Spring Peepers, but that may just be because I love Spring Peepers so I'm seeing what I want to see lol. I thought the would be Northern Leopard Frogs since they're so common around here, but they don't really look like it at all.
 
I doubt they can be rehabilitated to the point of being released. I would go ahead and call NR and ask for their advice, it can't hurt. It's such shame that that woman couldn't let them be, numbers for many frog species are declining at alarming rates...
 
victoria said:
I doubt they can be rehabilitated to the point of being released. I would go ahead and call NR and ask for their advice, it can't hurt. It's such shame that that woman couldn't let them be, numbers for many frog species are declining at alarming rates...
I know :( And now I feel terrible because I'm responsible for them. It goes against everything I believe in to keep a wild animal in captivity, but at the same time I know that they're not really wild anymore...They have plent of algae availible to them, but they don't understand and they start begging for food everytime I get near the tank. The woman would stick her fingers in the water and play with them, so they have no fear of people...I don't see how they would survive in the wild. I guess I'll can NR tomorrow and see what they say...

Edit: I've been looking at a bunch of species identification charts. So far, it still looks like they might be Spring Peepers, but I'll have to get some pictures of them so I can look at the pictures side to side before I feel confident calling them anything. These 2 charts were particularly helpful, but I don't know why half of the pictures on the first one have their back legs, but the rest don't :? Oh well...I have to go out tomorrow anyway, so I'll try to get my sister's camera, then I'll put pics up and you can tell me what you think...

http://fl.biology.usgs.gov/c1258_Dodd/html/tadpoles.html

http://www.trentu.ca/biology/berrill/IdentificationTable.htm
 
Wow when I was a kid approx 13yr old I took a bucket with aprrox 10 bull frog tadpoles out of the frog pond up the street from my house. As the kids would scoop them out and throw them on the road to die...
I put them in my back porch in a big tank and twice a week I would go to the pond and get fresh bucket of water making sure it has lots of algea and dirt in it...these babies grew into small bull frogs at which time I let them go back into the pond...but I did not feed or interact with them much at all other than changing water and sitting to watch them...sad that these poor babies might not survive on their own now.
I wish you luck maybe someone around you has a pond you could transfer them into once they are big enough?
I wish I had a pond for froggies!
 
From what I learned in my wildlife rehabilitation course reptiles,snakes,and amphibians are hard wired on what to do in the wild. It may take some time for the light switch to go on in there head but they will know.
I would stop any hand feeding and start feeding live crickets. Frogs are attracted to moving pray and buy replacing your moving hand to hoping crickets it may help turn the lights on.

I'm going to dig into my course text books more to try and help better.
 
I wouldn't call the MNR tho...they have a tendency to kill animals. If these frogs aren't sick or injured they aren't suitable candidates for rehab so your only hope is to rehab them yourself and set them "free" out of door. Buy crix like Vixxie said and just train them to be self-sufficient.
 
sausage4ever said:
I wouldn't call the MNR tho...they have a tendency to kill animals.
That's what I was thinking...it wouldn't seem fair to have them be killed or left to die by humans after humans took away ther survival skills. I'm hesitant to call them, but I haven't completely dismissed the thought...They're not old enough for crickets...I don't see any sign of back legs yet. At this age, they should still be eating algae and rotting plant material, or if their carnivorous (depending on the species) they should be eating tiny insects like springtails. They're in water from a swamp near my house (the only thing I did was de-chlorinate it because I had to wash the bowl and my water is chlorinated. And even a tiny bit of chlorine can kill them at this stage) with a few plants from there too. I've watched and there are a bunch of springtails and similiar little bugs in there, so they can eat them if they want. They still aren't eating the algae, but we compromised: I gave them soggy dandelions and clover. That way I'm feeding them, but their eating plant matter that they likely would if they were in the wild, unlike the lettuce that they were eating before.

I got some pics of them tonight...they're kind crappy, but they're fast little buggers lol

The whole set-up
Becca003.jpg

Becca001.jpg

One of the little guys (or girls)
Becca006.jpg

Another one
Becca010.jpg

...and gone lol
Becca009.jpg

Hanging out together
Becca014.jpg

An almost perfect shot for identifing: a head on and side view
Becca015.jpg

Becca018.jpg

Becca026.jpg


Also, I know it a really crappy shot but if anyone knows what kind of snail this is please let me know. It's really cool! I know nothing about snails because I've always avoided them since a lot of people say they're a nuisance. But this one's really cool...it swims! This morning it was floating and I thought it was dead, then it stuck what looked like most of it's body out of the shell and swam over to the branch over halfway across the bowl...and then it dived down to a submerged part and attached itself there...it was soooo cool! It's pretty small: under an inch long.
Becca027.jpg
 
As fun as they are to watch I would cover the bowl so they cant see your movment. Leave an area open for sunlight in. If they are to small for crickets, it maybe hard but try to get you hands on as much water bugs as you can. Having them in a bowl like that will expose them to to much light and movment. Like I said before they are attacted to movment not really the fact that human= feeding time.
Start taking a jar to the pond near buy and collect pond water every day and just keep introducing the bug and plant life from it, and stop hand feeding. That should make them start using there instincts.

Only Mammals and birds are affected by human inprinting. Meaning if your little guys were given the right enviroment in the wild they would know what to do.
There programed to.
Please don't think that the MNR are bad guys that kill animals just because. There are rules put in place for the safty of the wild life and people. Some times that means for the good of that animal or safty of people the animal needs to be put down. MNR and its wild life rehabilitators will ONLY put an animal down if thats the only choice.
As for your little guys only reason for the MNR to distroy them would be if they were an introduced speices that would threaten native wildlife.

Whether you belive it or not the people at the MNR care about animals but have to think past being a human and to whats best for an animal.
 
I moved them to a 10 gallon tank last night after I took the pictures, and I filled it with more (de-chlorinated) swamp water. I'm not really hand feeding them: I just kinda threw some dandelion leaves and clover into the water. They definately weren't eating though, because they hadn't pooped at all since I got them, and shortly after I put the leaves in they're pooping pretty consistently lol. I haven't contacted MNR, but I have contacted several local wildlife rehabilitation centres. I haven't heard anything back yet, but I only contacted them last evening.
 
I wonder what kind of frogs they are... It's so weird to think one day they will be frogs!!! They're very cute haha.
 
Vixxie said:
Please don't think that the MNR are bad guys that kill animals just because. There are rules put in place for the safty of the wild life and people. Some times that means for the good of that animal or safty of people the animal needs to be put down. MNR and its wild life rehabilitators will ONLY put an animal down if thats the only choice.
As for your little guys only reason for the MNR to distroy them would be if they were an introduced speices that would threaten native wildlife.

Whether you belive it or not the people at the MNR care about animals but have to think past being a human and to whats best for an animal.

Sorry Vixxie but there are a lot of people who are forced to rehab underground because of the MNR's new rules.
And the only baby skunk I ever held was killed mintues after I held him only because the MNR won't allow the Humane Society rehab them. Only regsitered rehabbers can rehab, and they/you are only allowed to rehab if they are injured. If they're not injured (ie. only orphaned) the MNR doesn't let you take them in.
I don't think they're "bad guys", but I think they shouldn't have changed their policies so much, because now it's not good to be an orphaned baby animal on Ontario.
 
Cait said:
I wonder what kind of frogs they are... It's so weird to think one day they will be frogs!!! They're very cute haha.
Based on what I can see, I would guess that they're either Spring Peepers or American Toads. They sort of look like Wood Frogs too, but on the second identification chart I linked above, it says the gut isn't visable in Wood Frog Tadpoles, and ever since they've got some food into them, I can clearly see their stomachs lol.

I heard back from one of the Woldlife rehab places. Unfortunately they only deal with mammals. So I sent MNR an email. I haven't heard back yet. We'll see what they say...
 
sausage4ever the MNR has these rule in play for Humane Societys not only because these are facilitys for pets but its not a proper place to rehab a rabies vector speices. For one can you imagine the inprint all the barking dogs would make on that baby? What would happen to all the unvaccinated cats and dogs in the building if it was found to have rabies or distemper? or even the voluteers and staff? I'm sure not every one that walks in that door (including public) have there pre-exposure rabies vaccination. There are tomany factors at a humane society that can inprint a wild animal or indanger every thing else on its grounds.

I do know for a fact that there are facilitys that are licensed to raise rabies vector speices but maybe there wasn't one available to the humane society you worked at so there only other safe choice was to put it down.

Bamboo I would call the mnr's 1-800 number because there email responce time is very slow.
1-800-667-1940 you could even try asking them for a rehabilitators info whom works with reptiles,snakes,and amphibians. I know there is some out there I just can't find there info in my paper work :(
 
Bamboo I think going the MNR route (asking them for advise, not necessarily surrendering the tadpoles) is a good idea as well, while I recognize their policies are far from perfect, a lot of people who work there really do care about wildlife and the ecosystem. If you find they are not helpful, you can always try contacting the appropriate department at a university to see if they can give you advise. I went to Trent and I do believe they do a fair bit of research on aquatic ecosystems, I can contact one of my old profs to see if he can put you in touch with someone that can help if you like. Good luck!
 
Well, all I did was give them a brief overview of the situation and asked what they thought would be the best solution. I am actually quite intrested in what they think, but I would be extremely hesitant to hand them over to them. Another one of the wildlife rehab centres got back to me, and they only do mammals too. But they said there was a guy around here who used to do a lot of reptiles and amphibian rehabs, but they haven't dealt with him in a while. They said that they'd look for his number and send it to me.
 
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