Help With Respiratory Distress

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jeschodron11

jeschodron11

Voice of the Voiceless
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
81
Location
Wisconsin
Hi All -

It's been awhile! I came for some advice. My rat, Scotty, had a brother who passed recently from CHF. He now has shown open mouthed gasping starting about a month ago. I took him into the vet and the vet stated she believed it might be a touch of CHF plus a pretty bad pneumonia. He has been on Doxy and Furosemide for almost a month now with a slight improvement in his breathing, however, he still has episodes of dashing about and open mouthed gasping (though not as many and not as severe as they originally were). He does have a humidifier next to his cage running 24/7 and when he does have the episodes, I steam him in the bathroom and that seems to calm him down. He is still eat, still drinking....he seems to start gasping when eating occasionally. The vet said that it was more a quality of life issue (since he's still eating and still drinking) and said that since the pneumonia was very bad, it might take awhile for him to recover. Do I just continue to let him have these episodes and keep giving him his meds? It pains me to see him gasping and short of breath. He has had some weird behaviors since he got sick as well, and has been extra cuddly and wanting to climb all over me as well as standing upright against the cage bars, which I'm assuming he does to help breathe better....does anyone have any further suggestions or help for me? His vet is an hour away and I'm picking up a refill for his medication this weekend.

What do you guys think??
 
If you decide to continue with him, request a 2nd antibiotic, as doxy alone barely can cure a mild URI much less what u are dealing with. He's clingy asking u for help and the rearing up onto cage sides is a bad sign.I'll post more soon
 
The doxy isn't working so if he has a respiratory infection, you need to try other antibiotics.
You can try adding baytril to the doxy
but I would suggest that you try baytril + azithromycin (10 mg/Ib to 15 mg/Ib) twice a day for at least 6 weeks - if this combo helps.
Azithromycin is purchased from the pharmacy using a prescription from your vet. Once mixed up azithromycin is good for only 10 days.

You can also try baytril + dozy + azithromycin (10 mg/Ib to 15 mg/Ib) twice a day for at least 6 weeks if the baytril + azithromycin isn't enough.
If it is a respiratory infection and the antibiotics are helping, then you should see improvement within a few days. If you do not see improvement then you try something else.

The furosemide (lasix ) he is on is what is making the difference .... otherwise he would get much worse in the steamy bathroom as the steam would make it even more difficult to breath if his lungs were full of fluid.
Is you air really dry? A cool air humidifier can help if the air is too dry but the humidity should only be around 50%.
You need to watch for dehydration as this will kill (when you pull up the skin on the back of the neck, it should snap back into place unless the rat is dehydrated) ... have your vet teach you how to give a rat sub-Q fluids and that you buy the materials you will need.

If your vet thinks he has chf, then he needs to be treated for it
When I have a rat with respiratory issues that do not respond to the various combinations of antibiotics,
we test dose with enalapril (0.25 mg/Ib twice a day, to start) or benazepril (0.3 mg/Ib, twice a day).

If the rat improves, a heart problem is assumed and atenolol (1 mg/Ib twice a day, to start) is added.
Then we do an xray and if my rat's heart is enlarged, digoxin (0.0025 mg/Ib twice a day, to start) is added to the enalapril or benazepril.
If the heart is not enlarged, then the other two meds are continued. The heart may become enlarged in the future.

A rat with CHF may be more likely to develop respiratory infections so antibiotics may also be needed from time to time.

If different combos of antibiotics do not make him better and you decide not to treat for heart disease, then you will need to have him humanely put to sleep so he doesn't suffer further. Please see: http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7652

Hope this info helps
 
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Thank you for the info - because I have already ordered another refill of the Doxy and it is 50$, I think I will try that plus ask if we can add Baytril (I just called and left a message for my vet) and see if that helps. She said she was hearing a popping sound in his lungs which made her think that it was a very bad pneumonia and that his lungs were almost "sticking" together. I am hopeful that with the addition of Baytril and keeping up with the Doxy and Furosemide the pneumonia will start to help. Thanks for the help! I appreciate it!
 
See if the vet will also give you a prescription for enough azithromycin to last 6 weeks.
That way, if the doxy + baytril doesn't clear up the problem, you will be able to fill the prescription for azithromycin at a drug store.
Baytril + azithromycin (10 mg/Ib, orally, twice a day for at least 6 weeks) is much more effective then baytril + doxy.
In either case, you need 6 weeks worth of baytril
 
Have you had an x-ray to see if there are any masses in his chest? I have found adding theophylline in addition to the two antibiotics (doxy/baytril) and lasix has helped with my chronic URI boys and my boy that had pneumonia.
 
My vet did not do an x-ray, as she stated that she thinks x-rays on rats could be a waste of money due to the fact that she could not get him to stay still and she cannot sedate him because of how bad his breathing is, it would be dangerous. Also, his brother had the exact same symptoms and they did an x-ray on him at the emergency vet and it showed nothing...I know that's not a great reason to not do an x-ray but she's been seeing my rats for over 6 years and I trust her judgement.

She was not in the office today but I will be asking her to add Baytril for tomorrow and then when I pick it up on Saturday (since it's an hour away), I will ask if she can add a script for the Azithro.

For now, he is still eating, drinking, taking his meds and I have been steaming him in the cage with the humidifier and a blanket over it and the steam really seems to calm him down.

Thank you all for the info - I figured the rearing up on his cage meant he was trying to breathe better. I try to hold him when he wants to be near me, but not to over stress him. I feel so terrible watching him gasp, the best I can do is to put him in steam and it calms him down. Poor guy. I want to do what I can for him!
 
I don't know how he managed it, but the emergency vet in my area was able to get an x-ray of one of my girls when she was in respiratory distress (I insisted on it before making a decision whether to PTS). It was clear enough to show that her lungs weren't filled with fluid.

I don't mean to suggest that your vet is calling it wrong, just sharing a different experience.
 
No, I know what you mean - my emergency vet took one of my other rat and all they could really tell was that there wasn't much fluid in his lungs but other than that, it didn't give me any details. They tried him then on antibiotics and I believe they misdiagnosed what was heart failure and by the time we figured that out, he passed away.

So, I guess in my experience, I haven't had good luck with x-rays showing any definite :-/
 
The reason I asked is I've had boys that show the same symptoms as URI but they actually had chest mass, heart tumor, and enlarged area of the heart (not all one boy - I have many) and were diagnosised with an x-ray.
 
Gotcha! Thanks - that thought crossed my mind, I have requested a second antibiotic for now and if that doesn't do the job then I will see what the vet says. My feelings are pointing me toward a bad URI due to the fact that he did start to get better a bit on the Doxy, but just hasn't been able to kick it all the way. I have high hopes for Baytril with Doxy - the vet said if that doesn't work she would compound some Azithromycin for me. Thanks for all the suggestions and help, it is truly appreciated!!
:thankyou::thankyou::thankyou:
 
Azithromycin is a pediatric antibiotic used to treat human children and babies.
I can't imagine why a vet would need to compound it (you just add water and shack the bottle), and I wonder if that would be much more expensive then just buying bottles at a pharmacy
 
I think she meant she would need to get it compounded for me at a pharmacy? I know when I get the Furosemide, they compound it for me at a human pharmacy.
 
If you end up needing zithromax, tell your vet to give you a prescription for the drug store. You can get it in a pediatric suspension (powder you mix into the bottle with sterile water or distilled)

It comes in 2 concentrations

100 mg/5 ml or 20 mg/ml mg

or

200 mg/5 ml or 40 mg/ml ( I prefer this as its less to get into a protesting little rat)

Ask the pharmacist to split the bottle into 2 bottles of powder...one you rehydrate right away, and the other you do in 14 days, so you will have a full 28 days of zithro.

You can then call around and find the cheapest price for the zithro as well.

Be prepared for funny looks when they find out its for a rat :)
 
Awesome, thank you!

My pharmacist actually fills Scotty's Furosemide and they have also filled it for my two previous guys and so they LOVE hearing about my ratties. They ask about them, how they are doing and the pharmacy tech has one and even called and asked me about some information on her little guy :) I love that they know me and are so sweet about my guys and really seem to care!!
 
It will come in a box like this

Zithromaxbox.jpg~original
 
Yes! Thanks so much for asking, I meant to post an update. He has not had a gasping episode since Thursday!! His hydration is back to normal, he's drinking from a syringe when I offer and he seems to have put on some weight :) also seems more active and less labored in his breathing, no dashing about or rearing up onto bars anymore!!! SO HAPPY!!! The only thing that's an issue now is I believe he sprained his front and back foot on the left as he has been limping for awhile on them and the back is swollen but he still gets around. I think he needs some time to heal, I'm thinking he mayb have sprained them when he was having a panic episode. He has full range and doesn't seem to be in much pain as far as letting me touch and move them and he does use them occasionally so I think time is all he needs.

Thanks so much for the help!!
 

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