HELP! Tonight's Intro's Went Very Badly . . .

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I'm back from the cottage and just wanted to update you all on our intro progress or maybe I should say NON progress. Rooi has pulled through like a champ and his wound has completely healed. The two cages have been next to each other for almost three weeks now and I've been switching fleece and hammocks from one cage to another for approximately one week. The two sets of TEA's have been getting separate out times but in the same location; big boys first and then the little boys.

For the past three days or so for safety's sake (and because I got tired of plucking the big boys off of the Martin's), I've started taking the baby-tea's out of the R-695 and letting them spend time in another room during the big-tea's out time. I don't know if this was the right thing to do or not but I've been leaving the Martin's cage doors open giving the big-tea's access. For the first two days, all three big boys spent quite a bit of time going over every inch of the Martin's and I definitely saw some agitation in the way of poofing, arching and a minor squabble occurred between the two dominant boys Chai and Earl. But last night, the big boys didn't seem quite so interested in getting into the Martin's or upset once they were in there. When the big-tea's out time is up, I allow the babies to have access to the same area and their cage. The babies don't seem to be unduly affected or freaked out by the "invasion" of their home.

I definitely don't want anymore blood shed or a repeat of my first intro disaster soooo . . . am I going too fast? Too slow? Should I just keep doing what I'm doing? Is giving the big boys access to the Martin's the right thing to do? Should I let the little boys have some time in the FN?

I'm all ears!

p.s. I just re-read what I wrote and it occurred to me that maybe I should be letting the babies out first? :doh:
 
What you're doing is fine. Even allowing the big boys access to the 695, it's all part of the intro process. I would go ahead and let the little ones have access to the FN, maybe put the big boys in the area you've been putting the little ones in. This will get the smell of the little ones all over the FN, and you'll be able to see how the big boys handle that next.

A little poofing and general grumpiness is normal, IMO, when first allowed into a new cage. It's New, smells "funny," and is in dire need of a marking spree. The fact that they calmed down shortly after the first time and have continued to become relaxed about the 'funny smelling' cage makes me think they just needed a little more time to become accustomed to all these changes.
 
Thanks, Kat! Hee hee hee, I knew I could count on you to be up at this time on a Saturday morning! I'll just keep on doin' what I'm doin' until you guys tell me otherwise.
 
Hah! I've been up for over an hour! The cats don't agree with my request for sleep, and I am but a puny human.

See how the big boys do after you've let the tots have a run around the FN. If it handles the same as the big boys in the 695, just keep on doing it until they've calmed down. This will be their Home Turf, so it may take them a little longer or they may show a little more posturing.
 
It sounds like a good plan to me too. You try different things in the hopes that it will help accustom the bullies into acceptance. Everything at this point should be tried.

(Cats woke me up too. )
 
The dog got me up... rather out of character for him. He had to pee.

Keep trucking along Gina.. you'll get there
 
Thanks for the encouragement, gals - I'll keep plugging away at it.

So, if the cats are getting Kat and Jo up . . . and the dog is getting moon up . . . then, what, may I ask is getting ME up at 5:00 a.m. every blasted morning?

Why can't I sleep?!? :cry3:
 
Well, it's the cats' fault that I'm up at 6am every morning. Not always the cats being obnoxious, since they tend to keep it down until around 7, which would be breakfast time. Since I'm nonhuman until I've had coffee, I gotta be up for an hour to have atleast 2 cups before I do anything. This morning was a little unusual and I believe the culprit is a stuffed toy involving catnip.

Aside from that, though, I'm always up early. Shelagh thinks it's insane. :giggle:
 
Yeah, me too. I've always been a bit of an early bird but it seems to be getting worse the older I get. Most days I'm up between 4:30 and 5:00 a.m., which IS insane! :coffee:
 
LOL! Then don't have any kids! You get used to it, I guess. I'm a bit like Kat in that although I'm technically "up", I need a wee bit of time ALONE to become sociable. When my kids were little, they were all miserable sleepers and up at the crack of dawn so I think I just trained myself to get up earlier than they did. Now that they're older and it's no longer necessary for me to get up early, I seem to be stuck in that cycle. :cry3:

Getting back to the original topic. I continued with the two separate out times in the same area and switching fleece and hammocks . . . but as an added twist, last night when out time was up, I put Chai, Earl and Tazo in the Martin's and the babies in the FN and left them in there for about an hour (praying that Mokka and Zen didn't realize that with just a tiny bit of effort they probably could wriggle out of the FN if they wanted to). I have to admit, I didn't stick around to watch, but when the hour was up, I went back into the Rat Room to see how everyone was doing. The bullies had obviously got done with razing through the babies' lab block stash and were like, "this is boring! Let us outta here, we wanna go home!" And the babies were all lounging around on the top most shelf of the FN like, "cool beans, Mum! Is this our new digs? Not too shabby!" I put everyone back into their respective houses and the babies did a lot of running around and exploring but interestingly, not so much the big boys. Oh sure, they were definitely giving the FN the once over, but there was absolutely no poofing, no posturing, no . . . nothing. The only thing out of the ordinary that I did notice was that the big boys did a LOT of pooping in the Martin's, some in the litter box but mostly just in the general vicinity. This is a bit unusual for them because (a) they're old enough now that they're no longer pooping machines and (b) they're pretty good about using the litterbox for pooping in. Was this some sort of marking behaviour, or did they just have to poop?

Sooo my rattie gurus . . . what do you say about the latest installment to the great rat-TEA intro epic?

p.s. moon - I've been meaning to tell ya. My boys absolutely HATE the Oxbow! HATE IT!! :laugh4:
 
Hrmm.. Pooped all over the place? I honestly don't know what that would be classified as. I, personally, would think it's a bit from Column A and a bit from Column B. I know my girls miss the litterbox when I try to move it, so that could have been part of it. And eventually they do run out of pee, and I guess poop would be a good way of continuing to mark your territory. Is it possible they just tipped the litterbox?

Next time that you do the switch, keep an eye on them for the first 10-15min. See how the big boys react, if they do anything other than act super interested. Them not flipping out when you put them back into the FN really makes me think that it wasn't an aggressive thing during the intros, just a way too soon thing. Rats are creatures of habit, bless their little hearts.

As an aside, my mother was the same way, Gina. She woke up at 5 every morning so as to have a single cup of coffee in peace. Both of her children are 30-ish now and she's finally learned how to sleep in. So, hey! You got something to look forward to in a few decades.
 
Well, not all over the place per se . . . it was all centred around the general area of the litterbox. Could be that one of the big-TEA's was rummaging around in the litterbox looking for baby-TEA lab block stash and just kicked and scattered poop out of the litterbox?

I'll be sure to watch and see what happens tonight. I really want to believe that you're right, Kat and that the first intro's went so badly not so much because my big boys are meanies but due to my gaff at trying to go too quickly, but the fact that there was blood involved . . .

We'll just take it real slow and easy. :nod:
 
Slow and easy is always good. It took me over a month to do my first intro and I didn't have even half as many problems. My biggest issue was not being able to grab Tully-Monster in case of a fight. I've still got the videos, too, hehe! They all did marvelously well, and it only took me several bags of chocolate to let it happen.

Just keep doing the cage swaps for a bit, make sure the big boys aren't getting all huffy about anything. When you feel you're ready for the next step, we'll go over single introductions. It'll prep you for the Big Group Intro, and you can also pinpoint who might be an instigator.
 
It's really good news that the older boys didn't get all upset with the baby smells in their own cage when they returned. :joy:
The pooping, I know that animals will poop to deter another animal to go near their stash. Or they will poop near their food so the smell of the food is hidden by the smell of the poop.
Also, if the big boys spent a lot of time eating the food, running and moving up and down the babies cage, that will get their guts moving and needing a good pooping. :thumbup:
 

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