When I put in new paper fiber bedding with the rats this time I sprinkled a couple tablespoons of baking soda in with it, thinking that it would be safe because I've seen small animal bedding that says it has baking soda in it and because we bake with baking soda. I should have looked it up first but just really thought it would be safe. The next day the rats started acting very sick and lethargic and I then looked up baking soda and rats and found several articles saying that baking soda can be used as rat poison because it builds gas in the rats and they are unable to burp it out and die. I quickly removed the bedding and wiped out the cage and put in new paper fiber bedding. The rats are still acting very sick and lethargic and I am worried I have unintentionally poisoned them. Is there anything I can do to reverse the effects of the baking soda or anything I can do to help them get the gas out or help them feel better?
Help! I put baking soda in rat's bedding...
- Thread starter kaylan
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PlumpusMaximus
plump as a wump
How much baking soda did you put in, and how long has it been since you removed it?
The LD50 for baking soda in rats is 8.9g/kg (LD50 means Lethal Dose 50% - basically, if you give 100 rats this dose, you expect that 50 of them will die). Given the average rat is ~400g or so, that's roughly 3.6g of baking soda eaten required to have a 50% chance of dying. According to a quick squiz of teh googles, that's about a teaspoon of baking soda each, which is rather a lot, but I suppose if they thought it tasted good and there was a ton of it it's possible? Did you actually see them eating it?
I don't have any advice as to how to treat them - I suspect that if they haven't died yet they'll probably be okay? But who knows. The baking soda basically reacts with the acid in the stomach and produces carbon dioxide - once that's happened, there really isn't anything that will change that, the gas just needs to come out. There's also the possibility of that much sodium causing issues, but I'm not sure how that would manifest.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002749.htm here's an article on baking soda poisoning in people, for reference.
Hope your little ones are okay!
The LD50 for baking soda in rats is 8.9g/kg (LD50 means Lethal Dose 50% - basically, if you give 100 rats this dose, you expect that 50 of them will die). Given the average rat is ~400g or so, that's roughly 3.6g of baking soda eaten required to have a 50% chance of dying. According to a quick squiz of teh googles, that's about a teaspoon of baking soda each, which is rather a lot, but I suppose if they thought it tasted good and there was a ton of it it's possible? Did you actually see them eating it?
I don't have any advice as to how to treat them - I suspect that if they haven't died yet they'll probably be okay? But who knows. The baking soda basically reacts with the acid in the stomach and produces carbon dioxide - once that's happened, there really isn't anything that will change that, the gas just needs to come out. There's also the possibility of that much sodium causing issues, but I'm not sure how that would manifest.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002749.htm here's an article on baking soda poisoning in people, for reference.
Hope your little ones are okay!
crumbilina
Well-Known Member
If you are really concerned you should take them in to a vet.
Are they still eating and drinking? If you give them a yummy, irresistible treat do they eat it?
How long have they been acting lethargic? And when you say "very sick" can you describe what you see that makes you say that?
Are they still eating and drinking? If you give them a yummy, irresistible treat do they eat it?
How long have they been acting lethargic? And when you say "very sick" can you describe what you see that makes you say that?
Thank you for your information. I put in about two or three tablespoons and mixed it up and I had it in with them overnight so about 10 hours until I noticed they were acting funny and I removed the bedding. This is the second day now from when they started acting sick, they are still both alive but are acting the same- no improvement yet. Do you think it would help them pass the gas if I gave them a mild laxative like pumpkin, or would that make things worse?
They do eat and drink still and then they immediately go to lay down and have heavy breathing, appear listless, and they in general look like they are very uncomfortable with the heavy breathing and their eyes half closed, I also felt their stomachs and they are more distended than usually I am thinking from the gas. Unfortunately there are only two vet clinics that will see rats in my area, one is a low-quality homeopathic vet we have been to before for our other pets that just prescribes herbal remedies, and the other is a very expensive exotics vet that I called already and will charge $300 just for the office visit for one rat. I was hoping there might be something I could give them to help them pass the gas or maybe poop.
They do eat and drink still and then they immediately go to lay down and have heavy breathing, appear listless, and they in general look like they are very uncomfortable with the heavy breathing and their eyes half closed, I also felt their stomachs and they are more distended than usually I am thinking from the gas. Unfortunately there are only two vet clinics that will see rats in my area, one is a low-quality homeopathic vet we have been to before for our other pets that just prescribes herbal remedies, and the other is a very expensive exotics vet that I called already and will charge $300 just for the office visit for one rat. I was hoping there might be something I could give them to help them pass the gas or maybe poop.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
I would definitely try the pumpkin.
Can you listen to their lungs? How old are they?
I know that some mice breeders actually do mix some baking soda in their bedding and nothing bad as ever happened. I wonder if this is related to the baking soda or a coincidence?
Can you listen to their lungs? How old are they?
I know that some mice breeders actually do mix some baking soda in their bedding and nothing bad as ever happened. I wonder if this is related to the baking soda or a coincidence?
fumblesquid
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I would be most concerned that they breathed in the baking soda, rather than ingested it. It could cause a lot of irritation in their airways. Sounds like they are showing signs of respiratory illness, with the heavy breathing and lethargy. They should see a vet so the vet can listen to their lungs. You can hold them up to your ear and listen for wheezing, congested clicking, or ANY noise related to their breathing patterns. Noises are bad to hear. They will likely need antibiotics if you hear anything. Antibiotics should be prescribed by a vet. Just keep in mind that even if they are silent, a vet can hear better with a stethoscope.
I just found this list of rat vets, although it is outdated, it is at least a starting point: https://sites.google.com/site/theratwhisperersusratvetlist/home
I just found this list of rat vets, although it is outdated, it is at least a starting point: https://sites.google.com/site/theratwhisperersusratvetlist/home
One of them is two and the other is a year and a half old. They're lungs don't seem to be making any sounds when they breathe, it's just the motion of their backs that appears labored when they are breathing now. I would think it was just a respiratory infection too if not for the articles I read about it creating gas in their stomach to be used as a rat poison. They also don't have any red porphyrin from their eyes and nose which I have always experienced with all my rats when they got a respiratory infection. I don't think that's the case this time but I would be happy if it was because I have had that successfully treated by vets with rats I have had in the past. I will try giving them some pumpkin for now and see if that starts to help. I was very surprised and felt horrible after they started acting like this and then I looked up the baking soda and saw that it could be used as rat poison
They were very healthy and active before and hadn't had any problems before a couple days ago
They were very healthy and active before and hadn't had any problems before a couple days ago
fumblesquid- Thank you for the list of rat vets, I found one more on that list that I didn't know about near me I will give them a call
Joanne
Well-Known Member
If they did ingest some, then getting their guts moving would be the solution. They can't burp, but they can certainly fart!
I really hope it is not because they inhaled some.
Can their blood become too basic (alkalosis/high pH) from ingestion and inhalation?
I really hope it is not because they inhaled some.
Can their blood become too basic (alkalosis/high pH) from ingestion and inhalation?
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
If you decide to bring them to a vet, please let us know what he/she thinks about the baking soda and your sweeties. I really do think it's time to bring them in if they are not any better.
