Glucosamine/Chondroitin for back end degeneration

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Fidget

Fidget

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
3,340
Location
Victoria BC
I wish I'd taken 'before and after' movies, but I had no idea there was gonna be a 'before & after'.
Touille has had back-end degeneration gradually getting worse for quite a while. In the last few weeks or so he's been actually dragging his back feet pads-up with claws bringing up the end.
I'd read about some people having results with glucosamine & chondroitin - even one 'miracle' post - and I've always giving my kids dog food with glucosamine & chondroitin - but thought I'd give the pills a try cause it's all I could do. I started him on it January 20 not expecting much if anything. But it's made an amazing difference. Before the end of the month his feet were always right side up and underneath him again, not dragging behind, he's clumsy but actually using them when he walks rather than dragging them uselessly.

I don't believe it myself but I'm seeing it. First I wasn't sure his feet were always under him, then I wasn't sure it wasn't a few day fluke, then I was so excited I wanted to post about him personally but didn't want anyone to read it and try the drugs & hope if the benefits were only short for Touille. (we've all tried some of the 'miracle cures' and been disappointed and worse - felt newly helpless).
So I don't know why the amazing change in Touille, why it happened, if it will last, but it is too amazing to say nothing, isn't it? I just hope that nobody thinks it's gonna work for sure on their kid cause if it did we'd have all heard. I just know what it did for this kid. I'd hate to cause anyone else letdown because of my incredible joy tho. So i'ts just a Can-be, not a Will-be, eh?
For reference - I got the Webber Naturals Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM 500/400/400 capsules (in our London Drugs flyer for $9.99 til sunday the 7th btw) and cut one in half and crushed it and divided the powder by 4 and gave one dose a day in a bit of chocolate syrup & water and he thinks it's a treat. So each pill is 8 doses.

Lord I hope some other kid(s) have the same benefit Touille has so far..
 
We tried that with our boy Jack, and it did slow the progression of the degeration. However, if he is already dragging, then he should also be on a low-dose steroid. It helped with his weight gain, as they tend to lose muscle mass by their legs and spine, and it helped with his appetite. Jack was on 0.12 cc of prednisolone syrup, 3 mg/ml per ml, 2x a day. Of course, have a vet measure out the dosage according to weight.
 
My vet wouldn't give me prednisone for a PT even, not much chance of getting it for this. But Thankyou, I copied your info to my meds files if I need it in future.
 
I'm really surprised at no more attention to this post than there has been! :redhot:
This hind end degeneration is one our rat-lovers banes, and I've seriously seen a major difference in my my Touille's abilities.

I'm not expecting it will do the same for every kid - I have to liken it to what prednisone does for PT's for a while. Some kids it doesn't help much, some it helps some, but some have a miracle difference, I've seen that!
I've just seen what it's done for Touille after watching him diminish to dragging his legs behind him. And then using them again with them under him as they should be.
I'm just truly shocked that nobody is writing, I hope people are paying attention to this!

It's not about my post, it's about a kid's ability to have a better life for a very few bucks. Not everyone can afford surgeries for their kids problems, and it's heartbreaking when you can't keep a kid from dragging a growing tumor around cause you don't have $300-400. But if there's even a chance of lessening or putting off a kid's inability to walk for $10 then I hope you're reading this!
 
Fidget, I just saw this post. Don't know how I missed it, except that I have been very busy and not always able to come onto the Forum every day lately.

I will definitely try this with Charlene. She is three years old and doing well except for very bad HED. I really appreciate the specific info you gave about the brand and dosage.
 
I've started 2 of my rats on it, Boss and Oscar and hoping to see the same results as you did, Fidget. The vitamins were quite expensive here though it's a huge bottle. (23.00 + tax) but hey, if it works I will be happy. lol
 
I had tried this with Eli and found some minor results, but I was using cat treats (low protein cat treats). I will be starting up this regime for the SkinKids on St. Patty's day and let's see if we can't keep HED at bay (OMG that would be amazing)!!!
 
I am a big believer in glucosamine, I use it for myself, my kitty, and any older rats I think will benefit from it. I have an old thread related to the use of glucosamine in my rescue rat V. Below is a quote from it relating to dosage.

I highly recommend giving it to your rats, there really is nothing in it to possibly harm your rats, so there is nothing to loose. You might be able to give it to your rats strait, but its a lot of liquid. The brand I have is flavored like lemon lime, and its not that bad. A good baseline to work from is about 240 mg/kg. All the liquid glucosamine I've seen has been 1,500 grams per an ounce, one ounce being a human dose. This works out to a little more than 2 ml/pound of rat. Some people recommend tripling this dose to 1/10th of the human dose. The main concern is that you may upset your rattie's tummy if you start with a high dose at first, so work your way up over a couple days. I may start giving V another half ml and see how she handles that. You could always mix it with block dust if your rats are a bit pudgy, baby cereal is pretty high calorie.
Click to expand...

Pink
 
I'm sure like a lot of others here, we read it, got excited but meant to come back to it for a thorough reply. I've been doing that a lot lately, reading the posts at night after work but meaning to get back to it during the day.

I'm very excited at your results and am eagerly waiting to see the results on mamarat's boys too. I don't have any right now with HED, I'm watching closely though because I'm guessing catching it early on, adding the supplements then must make an even better difference.
I'm not to comfortable however with adding pred. Pred is very hard on the body, it suppresses the immune system so that means they need to also go on an antibiotic, it also does a number on other organs. A rat with HED can live several months, I had one male live a year with HED. I don't think a year of pred and antibiotics would have been ideal.
 
Game on! I'm going to start Minky on this tonight. He's the only one with hed in my colonies at the moment.
 
Sorry if I sounded like i was having a little snitfit, but I was!
I'm just so amazed - and even more grateful - at the difference in my boy and it's still sustaining.'
I really don't want anyone to think it's a miracle that will fix their kid and be disappointed - but it is a miracle that has enhanced my boys abilities and his attitude. So it's sure worth paying attention to.
Touille continues to do well, he even climbed into their toilet the other day, took a little effort but he did it! Good boy, he's always left the hideyhouse and gone to the toilet and put his front feet in it and stirred the litter then done his business lying outside of it, been doing that for months. I was so happy to see him work his way into it, because he seemed so proud of himself. Doesn't make a difference to me where he does it, but it sure did to him. He was obviously proud so it was a fantastic moment for us both.

I'm not using prednisone Jorats. Just the Glucosamine/Chondrotin/MSM.
Of the people who are using it, have any of you experienced such major and quick benefit as I have with Touille?

I'm just truly amazed at the difference in him. Maybe it's a fluke and he had a problem that fixed itself unrelated to the vitamins??? Hardly, he was like that for months. It's just so unbelievable!
I really wouldn't be going on about this if it wasn't so incredible. Believe me, I sure don't want to raise anyones hopes if it doesn't work the same on their kid (and it won't on all or we'd have heard by now)
 
I've been told it takes about 2 weeks for glucosamine to take effect in your system so your dates seem about right. I am glad you had such good results with your boy :)
 
I have only just tripped over this thread but i have to say that it gives me hope. One of our older boys (Milo ages 25 months) has classic HED symptoms and i was trying to work out what is the best course of action for him. He still currently has movement in his hind but it is slowing. I am going to go and see if i can find some Glucosamine in the next couple of days to give it a go.

Does anyone know if there is an issue at giving to older rats without HED symptoms?

Thanks for the info, truly amazing.
 
There's shouldn't be any issues however I wouldn't just use it on 2yr old females, just as I don't find HED to be super common in females under 3, but anyone over three I feel would benefit.
 

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