Frustrated.....with intros

[ratwek]

Hi, I could really use some advice please! I will try to make this as brief as possible. I have had rats for ten plus years and have always hated intros. I mostly keep intact males. The only two females I have ever had were rescues and I had them spade. They intro'd easily to the boys. I hate intros so much that I get 4 to 5 babies around the same age to live out their lives. Then I take a couple of months rat free and start again.
Situation:
Five older boys 19 to 27 months
Two young boys 3 1/2 months (fathered by one of my old boys at my breeder request to keep the line going). So I took a couple of his babies!
Problem:
My old boys will not accept the little ones (except the father, who has no problem with them). I have used all the tried and true methods for intros. They are fine together on the table, couch, bathtub, great wall, carrier, etc. Although the little ones are quite tense because they know the big boys don't like them. Believe me when I say it is obvious via body language. It is when they go to the rat room (one of my bedrooms) that the stuff hits the fan! My old rats have their own room and live in a DNC which is always left open. They are extremely territorial. I spent 10 days in a row bringing them all down to the living room on the couch and in a great wall for 4 to 5 hours at a time. They slept and ate together, tense but no issues. As soon as I take them to their room the fights start. I have rearranged, scrubbed and totally changed the room and cage again and again. My two most dominant still will not leave the babies alone. They puff up and dance sideways at them. Push them, chase them, and attack them. I have already had to treat an abscess on one of the babies neck from a bite. My hubby accidentally left the babies cage door open one night and when I went in a few minutes later one of the big guys was in the babies cage looking like a darn puffer fish and had a little one backed into a corner under their wheel. Not only am I terrified, but so are the babies. It has been over a month and they just won't let them in the group. I have now split the DCN and do not let them out together. The babies visit with the older boys downstairs on the couch with me but they prefer not to be around them at all. I cannot neuter the babies. They will breed in the future for specific litters and I will not neuter my old boys. My old boys are so not happy and they get upset when they are locked in their cage with the little ones playing in the room. So.......any ideas?

Thanks for reading, sorry this is so long,
Debbie

 

[SQ]

Maybe if you take the cages apart and scrub and wash everything and make a different room available for your rats.
You may find some ideas on joinrat.com
But if you are unwilling to neuter the more aggressive boys, there may be nothing you can do as it sounds like you have been doing things right - Other then neutering all I can suggest is more time in neutral territory.
Good luck with your intros

 

[ratwek]

Thank you SQ. Sigh.....when I first started getting rats I did a lot of research. I had 4 boys about 8 mths (my first crew) when I decided to add another boy (3 mths) I rescued. After quarantine, I brought him home and tried all the suggestions I found on forums for intros. After two months the new boy would simply climb me like a tree to get on my head whenever he saw the other rats. I kept trying! I ended up getting all 5 of them neutered. It didn't work. My vet said that at their age (1 year) a neuter would not change their behavior in this instance. He was right. Hence my dislike of intros! I ended up getting another young boy and a spayed female to put with my lone boy. They bonded immediately and I kept the two groups separate. The original boys never accepted the other group.

I have cleaned and scrubbed the cage twice, as well as everything in it. I even bought new baskets, boxes, hammocks etc. for the cage. I scrub the room, the wall, the floor using white vinegar water every weekend. Unfortunately I do not have another room I can put them in. I have a feeling I will now be back to two separate groups for the duration. I will keep trying. Neutral zones are fine with the old boys but not what they consider their personal territory. I choose not to neuter because 3 of them are well over two years old and I do not want to put them through surgery. My past experience says it may not make much or any difference anyway. Thank you for the good luck wishes...I could certainly use some!

 

[jorats]

Honestly, I wouldn't attempt anymore without having some neuters done on the aggressive males.