victoria
Well-Known Member
I couldn't believe it when I read the headline... poor families.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013 ... ldren.html
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013 ... ldren.html
Escaped snake kills two NB children
- Thread starter victoria
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jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
OMG. Oh god... I don't even know what to say.
:sad3: :sad3: :sad3: :sad3:
This is a very sad sad time for the family... and sadly we can't blame the snake either, can only really point fingers at the pet shop for not containing its animals better. Personally I don't think snakes make good pets, they require more attention or specific needs that I think are more difficult to be successful at then with rats.
I've heard different stories from different parts of the states, from my home area, to Florida mostly about how large pythons escape their owner's cages, and find their way into the house and swallow up children, from newborn to the last I heard was a 2yr old girl... it makes me cry considering how it could have been easily avoided
sad story
This is a very sad sad time for the family... and sadly we can't blame the snake either, can only really point fingers at the pet shop for not containing its animals better. Personally I don't think snakes make good pets, they require more attention or specific needs that I think are more difficult to be successful at then with rats.
I've heard different stories from different parts of the states, from my home area, to Florida mostly about how large pythons escape their owner's cages, and find their way into the house and swallow up children, from newborn to the last I heard was a 2yr old girl... it makes me cry considering how it could have been easily avoided
sad story
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
People and our laws are at fault
Hopefully horrible tragedies like this will cause laws to be passed against snake ownership, sale and breeding.
Snakes are wild animals that do not belong in captivity.
Godmother
Well-Known Member
Terrible news. Why on earth is it legal to keep deadly snakes?
Witjes
Active Member
shocking... really shocking.
Joanne
Well-Known Member
Wow. Like something out of a horror movie. I wonder if the boys were brothers. Unbelievable.
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Actually as far as I know it isn't legal to keep snakes in NB but the gov relaxed its rules and enforcement after complaints and lobbying from pet store owners,
temblabamomo
Senior Member
How horrible. it is terrible that things like this have to happen before governments even consider banning such wild creatures as pets (if theyre even doing that now). my heart goes out to the family.
I agree with SQ snakes are just not domesticated enough to be pets. Even some lizards have human attachments I do not believe snakes have the emotional capacity to be any type of safe pet there are just too many stories about snakes like this one even many where the snakes have tried to eat their owners and their children. And it's just too sad
hopefloats
Not active.
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That is so sad.......
dspch911
Senior Member
I read this story and I'm call BS on it - I'm thinking they are going to find out the snakes had nothing to do with it, but that is just my opinion. I have seen the bad in people for too long.
Joanne
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, that crossed my mind too. I'm sure if the snake did suffocate them, that there would be bruising and possibly bone fractures consistant with a sqeezing snake. The autopsies will tell the tale, as I'm pretty sure a human couldn't replicate that amount of force, with even pressure.dspch911 said:
Sorraia
Well-Known Member
Horribly tragic two young boys died.
Completely agree. I don't buy this story. Snakes typically don't go around killing people for no reason. Snakes typically only kill what they intend to eat, and will not attack prey too large to consume. I don't understand how this snake would kill one child and not try to consume it, let alone kill two children. Reports are saying the snake fell through the ceiling. How did that not wake anyone up, and if it did, why did the second child just sit there and wait to be attacked by the snake instead of yelling, screaming, throwing things at the snake, trying to get help? And during these attacks, where was the third child and what was he doing? The claim is, this was a sleepover... I don't know about any one else, but every time I went to a sleepover as a child, I was with my friends, therefore I would think the third child would have been with these two children and woken up some time during the commotion.
Want to know something interesting? http://globalnews.ca/news/762560/escape ... brunswick/
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/nb/news-nouve ... 34-eng.htm
First article is reporting this incident. Take note of the store owner's name. Second article is from a few years ago. Take note of the name in that article. Possibly two different individuals with the same name... but I find it an interesting coincidence.
As for keeping snakes as pets... At one time it was believed rodents could not feel emotion. In fact, at one time it was even believed they couldn't feel pain! It was at one time believed dogs and cats did not share emotions equivalent to those humans feel. Today many people believe those prior thoughts to be false. Many people do not believe reptiles are capable of feeling emotion. Is it possible one day people will believe different? Who knows.
Personally... I do not believe a criteria for pets is the animal feels emotion. I also do not believe complex requirements means an animal cannot be kept as a pet. What one person is capable of, is not the same as another person. Some people cannot even care for dogs and cats, so should dogs and cats be outlawed as pets? Surely not. Many people cannot properly care for a reptile, but that does not mean no person can. Not every person keeps a pet because that animal fulfills some desire to feel loved. Many people keep pets because they enjoy being around the animal, being able to watch and observe it. This is the reason many reptile hobbyists keep reptiles, not because they feel "loved" by that animal, but because they love the animal, love being around it, love being able to watch it, and admire it. Many reptile hobbyists are actually in awe of the animals they keep. You can argue it is "cruel" to keep such an animal in captivity, but at the same time that argument can go for pets we deem acceptable as pets too. Many people consider it "cruel" to cage any animal, including rats. True some people don't cage their rats, but let's face it, for the rats' safety, most of us do. Are we in fact "cruel" for caging the animal? After all, in the wild a rat would move over an area far greater than 3 cubic feet! Some of us keep male and female rats in the same house, but others would consider that cruel unless one or both sexes were altered, because otherwise they would be smelling each other and the desire to breed would drive them completely bonkers, because it is in the animal's very nature to reproduce. Many would consider keeping birds in cages cruel, and birds are perhaps the best comparison to reptiles. Birds have very complex environmental, physical, and emotional needs that most humans simply cannot provide. Many birds survive in captivity as pets, but do they truly thrive? That's up to debate. In fact... keeping dogs in captivity may be cruel too, and keeping cats indoors is surely cruel. In the wild canines roam over large territories. In captivity dogs are confined to a single house or yard (in some cases a mere studio apartment). Some are kept in kennels or crates most of the day. Many dogs develop problem behaviors because their social and environmental needs are not being met, some of these dogs become aggressive and attack people. That's not too far off from the argument that snakes shouldn't be kept as pets because people cannot provide for them...
Just some food for thought.
dspch911 said:
Completely agree. I don't buy this story. Snakes typically don't go around killing people for no reason. Snakes typically only kill what they intend to eat, and will not attack prey too large to consume. I don't understand how this snake would kill one child and not try to consume it, let alone kill two children. Reports are saying the snake fell through the ceiling. How did that not wake anyone up, and if it did, why did the second child just sit there and wait to be attacked by the snake instead of yelling, screaming, throwing things at the snake, trying to get help? And during these attacks, where was the third child and what was he doing? The claim is, this was a sleepover... I don't know about any one else, but every time I went to a sleepover as a child, I was with my friends, therefore I would think the third child would have been with these two children and woken up some time during the commotion.
Want to know something interesting? http://globalnews.ca/news/762560/escape ... brunswick/
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/nb/news-nouve ... 34-eng.htm
First article is reporting this incident. Take note of the store owner's name. Second article is from a few years ago. Take note of the name in that article. Possibly two different individuals with the same name... but I find it an interesting coincidence.
As for keeping snakes as pets... At one time it was believed rodents could not feel emotion. In fact, at one time it was even believed they couldn't feel pain! It was at one time believed dogs and cats did not share emotions equivalent to those humans feel. Today many people believe those prior thoughts to be false. Many people do not believe reptiles are capable of feeling emotion. Is it possible one day people will believe different? Who knows.
Personally... I do not believe a criteria for pets is the animal feels emotion. I also do not believe complex requirements means an animal cannot be kept as a pet. What one person is capable of, is not the same as another person. Some people cannot even care for dogs and cats, so should dogs and cats be outlawed as pets? Surely not. Many people cannot properly care for a reptile, but that does not mean no person can. Not every person keeps a pet because that animal fulfills some desire to feel loved. Many people keep pets because they enjoy being around the animal, being able to watch and observe it. This is the reason many reptile hobbyists keep reptiles, not because they feel "loved" by that animal, but because they love the animal, love being around it, love being able to watch it, and admire it. Many reptile hobbyists are actually in awe of the animals they keep. You can argue it is "cruel" to keep such an animal in captivity, but at the same time that argument can go for pets we deem acceptable as pets too. Many people consider it "cruel" to cage any animal, including rats. True some people don't cage their rats, but let's face it, for the rats' safety, most of us do. Are we in fact "cruel" for caging the animal? After all, in the wild a rat would move over an area far greater than 3 cubic feet! Some of us keep male and female rats in the same house, but others would consider that cruel unless one or both sexes were altered, because otherwise they would be smelling each other and the desire to breed would drive them completely bonkers, because it is in the animal's very nature to reproduce. Many would consider keeping birds in cages cruel, and birds are perhaps the best comparison to reptiles. Birds have very complex environmental, physical, and emotional needs that most humans simply cannot provide. Many birds survive in captivity as pets, but do they truly thrive? That's up to debate. In fact... keeping dogs in captivity may be cruel too, and keeping cats indoors is surely cruel. In the wild canines roam over large territories. In captivity dogs are confined to a single house or yard (in some cases a mere studio apartment). Some are kept in kennels or crates most of the day. Many dogs develop problem behaviors because their social and environmental needs are not being met, some of these dogs become aggressive and attack people. That's not too far off from the argument that snakes shouldn't be kept as pets because people cannot provide for them...
Just some food for thought.
Sorraia, I understand what you're saying. I don't personally believe that snakes should be outlawed as pets, but I think for, at least certain species, there should be very strict laws about it. There is no reason for a typical person to have a poisionous or possibly deadly(python) snake- they may not have killed children, but they constantly kill dogs, cats, and endangered animals to eat when in the wild.
I live in Florida, and we have a huge enviormental disaster in the Everglades- home to hundreds of almost-extinct species- because irresponsible snake owners are releasing their pythons into the wild, where their numbers peak out of control due to the lack of any natural predators. If you'd like, I can link you multiple studies on this.
Furthermore, since we are on a rat forum, I'd like to point out that larger reptiles eat small mammals, and the way backyard breeders on craigslist make their living off of breeding feeder rats/mice/rabbits/etc. is cruel and disgusting, yet no one in government is doing anything about it.
The way i see it: We can ban almost all snakes as pets except in zoos or museums, or we can put laws restricting the species, who has them, who needs a license, where their food is obtained, how their food is bred, and some form of guarantee that the owners ARE keeping them in safe conditions like they say. The second will probably never pass because people are lazy.
I live in Florida, and we have a huge enviormental disaster in the Everglades- home to hundreds of almost-extinct species- because irresponsible snake owners are releasing their pythons into the wild, where their numbers peak out of control due to the lack of any natural predators. If you'd like, I can link you multiple studies on this.
Furthermore, since we are on a rat forum, I'd like to point out that larger reptiles eat small mammals, and the way backyard breeders on craigslist make their living off of breeding feeder rats/mice/rabbits/etc. is cruel and disgusting, yet no one in government is doing anything about it.
The way i see it: We can ban almost all snakes as pets except in zoos or museums, or we can put laws restricting the species, who has them, who needs a license, where their food is obtained, how their food is bred, and some form of guarantee that the owners ARE keeping them in safe conditions like they say. The second will probably never pass because people are lazy.
victoria
Well-Known Member
Jean Claude and Savoie are both common French Canadian names and it is highly unlikely the two are the same person - one article states the pet store has been open since at least '96 (and pressumably the owner has lived above the entire time) and it's in a different city than the city of residence listed for the accused in the article.
Many people have pointed out it's highly unlikely that the snake killed these two to feed on them but I heard an expert on the news saying yesterday it's possible both boys were strangled/suffocated together when the snake was exploring. The cops are still thinking the boys were killed by the snake, I'm sure they've considered the possibility it was a homicide but they've continued to state they think the snake was responsible. Whether or not the snake owner will face charges for not ensuring his enclosure was suitable or for having a banned species is a different story.
Many people have pointed out it's highly unlikely that the snake killed these two to feed on them but I heard an expert on the news saying yesterday it's possible both boys were strangled/suffocated together when the snake was exploring. The cops are still thinking the boys were killed by the snake, I'm sure they've considered the possibility it was a homicide but they've continued to state they think the snake was responsible. Whether or not the snake owner will face charges for not ensuring his enclosure was suitable or for having a banned species is a different story.
dspch911
Senior Member
They euthanized the snake - this wasn't the snake's fault - if it even actually occurred as reported!
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
I am very sorry if the snake was pts as it wasn't the snakes fault.
Hopefully laws will be enforced in NB again and it will again be illegal to own, breed and sell snakes.
We did not have a problem re rats and rescue rats until after they stopped enforcing the law against snake ownership.
Making snake (and reptile) ownership illegal will go a long way toward ending some types of animal cruelty in this prov., including cruelty toward snakes, mice rats, gerbils, hamsters, and kittens.
Snakes deserve better then to be kept as pets.
Hopefully laws will be enforced in NB again and it will again be illegal to own, breed and sell snakes.
We did not have a problem re rats and rescue rats until after they stopped enforcing the law against snake ownership.
Making snake (and reptile) ownership illegal will go a long way toward ending some types of animal cruelty in this prov., including cruelty toward snakes, mice rats, gerbils, hamsters, and kittens.
Snakes deserve better then to be kept as pets.
victoria
Well-Known Member
This particular species WAS illegal...
