Elderly Rat + Prednisone + URI

Discussion in 'Health & General Care' started by Charlize, Sep 22, 2018.

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  1. Sep 22, 2018 #1

    Charlize

    Charlize

    Charlize

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    My old lady, Anova (2.75 years) was recently started on cabergoline and prednisone due to a suspected PT. The prednisone has been quite helpful with regards to her ability to walk around again, hold things and chew them, etc.

    However, she caught an illness recently, I think, from a new rat I brought in to the home. She's been a Baytril lifer, due to her susceptibility to myco flareups. She completed a 3 week course of Clavamox, but once I took her off of it, she immediately showed signs again of URI (bulgy eye, snotty sounding nose). She's been back on the Clavamox for a week, but I noticed today her eye is a bit bulgier than yesterday, she's a bit more isolated, and her breathing may also be a bit more congested.

    I suspect the Clavamox is less effective due to the immune suppressing effects of Prednisone. Has anyone ever been in this situation? Any recommendations for the weekend until I get her into the vet next week. Poor thing.
     
  2. Sep 23, 2018 #2

    SQ

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    I would suggest baytril + clavamox if she is not on baytril, if she is on baytril you could try adding another antibiotic if you have any ....... if she sounds congested, she may need a diuretic, a bronco dilator might help ..... but the best thing you can do is get her in to see a good vet knowledgeable about rats asap

    Some suggest humidity such as a steamy shower, however if she has fluid in her lungs this will add fluid and reduce her ability to breath

    also when antibiotics work, I have found it is important to keep a rat on the antibiotics for at least 6 weeks, although a min of 4 weeks is the standard treatment (3 weeks is not long enough)

    sorry that I am not much help ...... don't suppose that u are in the Fredericton area?

    Can you post a video of her breathing?
    (post video to youtube ad then post the link on here)
    Is she in distress? Working hard to breath? holding her head up or down to breath?
    Is she eating ok?
    Is she hydrated?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  3. Sep 23, 2018 #3

    jorats

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    SQ gave some good advice. Not much more I could add to that unfortunately.
     
  4. Sep 23, 2018 #4

    Charlize

    Charlize

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    Thanks for the suggestions, I've been monitoring her a little more closely.

    I'll try get a video today. She does not seem in distress or like she's have troubles breathing. No changes to eating, and she's been getting high water foods as treats to supplement.

    She's definitely still on Baytril. Good to know re:Clavamox for 4 weeks.
     
  5. Sep 25, 2018 #5

    Charlize

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    Vet said her lungs sound really good, thankfully! I guess she may just have some of the "snotty nose" issues more permanently.

    He did suggest trying her on doxy after I finish this 3 week stint of Clavamox, though.

    I did get powdered doxy, 1/20 of a capsule (100 mg) per rat/twice daily. I found this on ratguide.com: "If mixing capsules in water, stability ranges from 12 to 48 hours. It is advisable to mix fresh daily, although new 2002 literature indicates that it remains stable for 14 days if refrigerated."

    Does anyone mix their own capsules in water?
     
  6. Sep 25, 2018 #6

    jorats

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    When you do the doxy, make sure you still do the Baytril. Doxy on it's own is pretty useless in my opinion and experience. I have done the mixing in water, it stayed stable pretty well in the fridge.
     
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  7. Sep 25, 2018 #7

    Luna&Ralph

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    I also mix doxy capsules/powder in water and keep it in the fridge for 2 weeks. I've stopped antibiotics too quickly before too and it did lead to quite a bit of antibiotic resistance, so that's probably what happened with the Clavamox. I use a combo of Baytril, doxy and amoxicillin, and find that this works quite well so it sounds like you're using a good combo of antibiotics.
     
  8. Sep 26, 2018 #8

    Charlize

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    Excellent, that's awesome to know!

    The doxy is definitely a lot cheaper than the Clavamox!
     
  9. Sep 27, 2018 #9

    SQ

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    Yes it is, .... but necessary as it is great for secondary infections.
    As Jorats said, I too have found doxy useless unless combined with baytril
    (and even then it is not very effective in my experience)
    I too mix doxy. I mix 1 capsule at a time in water and give 1/20 as you mentioned
    Like orats, I have found that it seems to do ok in the fridge for the short time it takes to use up one capsule
     
  10. Sep 27, 2018 #10

    Charlize

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    How interesting, that's good to know. We were going to take her off of Clavamox and try doxy, but maybe I'll wait and see if Clavamox helps clear it up.

    In essence, my new boy brought something in (despite my efforts to get the Moncton SPCA to get him checked by the vet) and then all of my girls got sick. So, my elderly lady is respiratory sick for the first time in years (because she's been on Baytril and the other girls are in good health, generally). Interestingly, with this sickness, it took a lot longer for symptoms to clear up than I've noticed in the past with Clavamox. Once I took the younger ones off of Clavamox, the symptoms reappeared within a week. Vet suspects the cold is likely more bacteria resistant so we're trying doxy now with the younger ones (they're all on Baytril right now as well for the 6 weeks).

    I hope these drug combos help my sick ones.

    Thanks for all of your help!
     
  11. Sep 27, 2018 #11

    lilspaz68

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    If the addition of the Clavamox hasn't started to help her improve it likely won't. Clavamox is NOT effective on myco only secondary infections, so I would switch to the doxy/baytril ASAP.
     
  12. Sep 27, 2018 #12

    SQ

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    If the clavamox did not help it probably is myco as lilspaz68 said, in which case the new rat did not bring anything in and the rats need to be on a combo of antibiotics asap.
    If you are putting them on doxy, make sure you add baytril or it will likely not be effective
     
  13. Oct 1, 2018 #13

    Charlize

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    The Clavamox definitely did help over the three weeks. Just not as quickly as I've seen Clavamox help with previous infections my rats have had.

    The three that were on Clavamox for three weeks were asymptomatic after three weeks of treatment. But symptoms returned within 1 week. The older one on Clavamox responded as well but had symptoms within a day of being off of Clavamox. In part due to her prednisone suppressed immune system, I suspect.

    The three younger ones are all on doxy now and have been since Tuesday. I've noticed some improvement in symptoms, but again, it's quite slow improvement. They're all on Baytril as well.
     
  14. Oct 1, 2018 #14

    SQ

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    The clavamox did not help in the long run because they were not on it long enough
    rats need to be on antibiotics for at least 4 weeks …. and I have found that they need to stay on antibiotics for at least 6 weeks to get over the illness

    If the doxy + baytril is helping but not good enough, try azithromycin (10 mg/Ib twice a day) instead of the doxy, or add it to the baytril + doxy combo - and a vet appointment would be a good idea in case there is something else going on

    How is your older girl? What is she on?

    Hope they are all soon feeling much better
     
  15. Oct 1, 2018 #15

    Charlize

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    How interesting. Vet definitely prescribes Baytril for 6 and Clava for 3 weeks. I'll see how the doxy goes over the week, see if I notice any little sniffles in their nose.

    Older girl is doing okay. I've been syringing the Clavamox into her mouth, and part of me thinks it may be more effective that way as opposed to mixed with food. She's on Baytril + Clavamox + Prednisone + Cabergoline. Poor thing.

    Me too! Thanks!
     
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  16. Jan 5, 2019 #16

    dspch911

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    FYI, bluding eye is from the pituitary tumor. Hope everyone is feeling better.
     

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