Does this sound more like an ear infection or PT?

[veggies]

My 1.5 year old rat Baron started showing some strange symptoms a week ago. I noticed he was having trouble balancing himself while grooming and would often kind of tip over when trying to get to his butt or other hard to reach spots. He's a little bit chubby so I chalked it up to that, even considered the beginnings of HED.

Now he's having a little trouble with balance while walking. He can still get around his cage just fine but I see that he'll kind of veer in a direction he didn't mean to go in, look a bit confused, and then right himself. He's just been clumsier.

He is still eating lots of food with his paws okay, but sometimes he's tip a bit, but he can still grasp small foods. It's just while grooming and walking he's a little clumsy and confused. Maybe a little bit more lethargic and bruxing a little more often than usual, but usually at times where he'd be happy like when I put a fresh dish of food in, so it's hard to tell if it's pain bruxing or excited/happy bruxing.

I'm taking him to the vet in the morning but wanted to get opinions and tips on caring for him if it turns out to be either of these things.

Edit: as I sit here next to him I notice he's a little bit sneezier than usual but his breath and lungs sound clear. Maybe it was a mild URI that led to an ear infection? Not sure.

 

[lilspaz68]

I would lean a little more towards inner ear infection with the wobblies and not any other distinct PT symptoms. Hope you get some good antibiotics and it clears up quickly

 

[veggies]

Thanks lilspaz. I just realized that sometimes he doesn't use his paws to eat a treat, like if he's already lying down he won't get up and will just eat it off the ground. Sometimes he puts his elbows on the ground to help balance himself as he eats. But if he's already sitting up he'll use his paws to eat like normal. Not sure if he's just being lazy or that getting up is too hard for him in his dizzy state or if it's PT. I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

 

[lilspaz68]

Do his eyes look confused or still big and bright?

 

[veggies]

When he first wakes up he's a little squinty but once he gets going his eyes are normal.

 

[dspch911]

My PT boys get dull eyes, they lose the glossy look. Sounds like an ear infection to me. Is he tilting his head to one side?

 

[veggies]

No, he has absolutely no head tilt. He just seems a little confused and out of it, and upon closer inspection I noticed he's having a little bit of trouble in one paw with grasping.

He took a small tumble off a hammock, so he's definitely very clumsy. I remember last night I put my arms out for him to run up (he knows to do this when it's time for bed) and he sort of ran past them, then stopped, and looked very confused.

I'm really starting to think it's PT. He's still eating solid foods and drinking on his own but he's just not himself. I am in the middle of moving right now and was planning on driving with them about 10 hours to my parent's house for the summer (i'm a college student, so we do the trip every few months). My problem is that my vet where I am now (at school) is really great, but I haven't been able to find a good vet at my parent's house.

I'm scared that if it is PT he'll only have a few weeks even with the steroids and such... Is it worth it to put him through that drive again? Especially going to a place where the exotic vets aren't as knowledgable?

I don't want him to suffer at all. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself but I'm so afraid of him suffering. I've never experienced the death of a pet..

Here's a picture I took a few minutes ago-- do his eyes look dull?

 

[lilspaz68]

Can you get us a video of him eating and moving around a little?

 

[dspch911]

Where are you headed to maybe we can help you locate a vet. If it is PT some forum members have had good luck with treatments lasting six months.

 

[veggies]

I'm headed to the Washington DC area. There are a few exotic vets I've seen there but they weren't great with rats.

I'll post a video a little later, but after taking him to my normal vet today I have some promising news. She doesn't think it's PT but rather arthritis and the beginnings of HED. He's gained quite a bit of weight (40 grams since I brought him in a few months ago, he's now 605g) and that could be why he's having trouble reaching his back end, along with the pain in his joints. She watched him eat a baby puff and he held it well, and also watched him walk around and even climb. She said he looks good and a lot of his symptoms (the wandering/clumsiness) could have been caused by the discomfort he was experiencing.

She gave me some metacam to rule out arthritis over the weekend as she didn't want to start the pred if it was just arthritis. I asked if just in case it was PT if we could try cabergoline or bromocriptine if he doesn't show any improvement on the metacam. She said she's never used cabergoline but has done bromo, and she said she'd research the cabergoline for me.

 

[veggies]

Baron is doing really well on day 2 of metacam. He is no longer falling off any hammocks and can hold even tiny yogies in both hands without using the ground at all. He's still having a little trouble grooming his butt and tips over unless he's leaning against something but that could be because he's gained quite a bit of weight in the past few weeks. He's also started to liking to take naps in the litter box in the past few days, no idea why! He no longer seems to be in any discomfort or showing any signs of pain.

Of course I still have the nagging fear that it could be a PT. The vet said she was using metacam instead of pred to rule out PT, but couldn't the metacam also have the same effect on a hypothetical PT as the pred?

I'm just not sure if I should be pushing her for an antibiotic + steroid with bromo or cabergoline. I hate telling vets how to do their jobs but I just worry about my babies so much, and if it is a PT and I could get a few more happy months with him on bromo early that would be amazing.

Also good news-- I found a really great exotic vet in the place I'm moving to, just 15 minutes from my house. There's also a pretty good 24 hour emergency exotic clinic about 45 minutes away.

 

[jorats]

If Baron is doing very well on just metacam, I can't see that being PT. With PT, the only time I ever saw improvement, it was with steroids or dex.

That's really good news about the vet near you!

 

[dspch911]

Originally my vet told me metacam would have the same affects as pred, but I was told on here that wasn't true. You cannot give metacam with pred and dex - you will need to wait 72 hours after stopping metacam.

Healing vibes and I'm hoping for anything other than PT...

 

[veggies]

Well his mobility and dexterity is back to normal with just the metacam, it's just he's fairly lethargic (but he's always been a lazy chunk) and just sort of... Spacey I guess. He doesn't go crazy for treats anymore and doesn't get up to the door to greet me. There's just something off about him.

Would there be any harm in asking for the cabergoline or bromo but keep with the metacam? It would put my mind at ease if he was on one, at least to try.

 

[veggies]

Bad news, Baron seems to be going downhill and it does seem to be PT. My vet refuses to put him on the pred or dex-- she's very wary about using steroids, especially so soon after metacam. I even offered to sign waivers and stuff that would make her unliable as long as she would just try the pred. She says nothing in her veterinary literature says the steroids would help more than hurt. She's been a good vet before this-- did one of my boy's neuter and has gotten them through any and all respiratory scares. I'm bummed she won't give me any steroids.

Good news, she did give me a 2 month script for cabergoline. I'm picking it up at the compounding pharmacy tomorrrow. It's a nice little flavored oil solution, about 100 bucks. Does anyone know how quickly it works??

Hoping that the cabergoline will get him through the next few days and the move until I can see the other exotic vet at my new city and see if I can get pred or dex from him. Hopefully I've caught it early enough to get a few months out of him with the cabergoline, he is still walking and eating and not as stumbly, but I noticed his left eye is a little bulgy.