Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation

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SQ

SQ

Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Joined
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Location
central New Brunswick Canada
Does anyone know anything about Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation?

Recently a young (approx. 5 months old) healthy (wonderful, loving) rattie went in to be spayed.
A few hours after the spay she had blood in her mouth, lungs and in her urine as well as her abdomen. She died. The vet did a postmortem and didn't find anything that would account for blood everywhere. The official cause of death has been ruled Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation.

Has anyone ever heard of this before?
Jorats and lilspaz68, could you ask your vets?
I will be asking mine.
 
I know that DIC is a reaction to shock...
so potentially it was in response to an adverse drug reaction or the surgery itself (in a sensitive patient)...

Although the bleeding out IMO would not have been attributed to DIC - as the entire meaning of DIC is widespread coagulation within the vessels - so your blood clots IN your capillaries and what not....

but then again i have never seen clinical presentation of DIC so i could be wrong...

EDIT: i looked around and apparently a clinical sign of DIC can be severe bleeding, one of the causes could be recent surgery or anesthetic, cancer, sepsis
 
Cityratt said:
Although the bleeding out IMO would not have been attributed to DIC - as the entire meaning of DIC is widespread coagulation within the vessels - so your blood clots IN your capillaries and what not....
Click to expand...

When I read this, it confused me as well. Coagulation is clotting, clotting means NOT bleeding out... It's kind of an oxymoronic diagnosis... Mayb I'll have to ask my Pathology professor about this one, heheheh.
 
Avatar said:
Cityratt said:
Although the bleeding out IMO would not have been attributed to DIC - as the entire meaning of DIC is widespread coagulation within the vessels - so your blood clots IN your capillaries and what not....
Click to expand...

When I read this, it confused me as well. Coagulation is clotting, clotting means NOT bleeding out... It's kind of an oxymoronic diagnosis... Mayb I'll have to ask my Pathology professor about this one, heheheh.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about that too Avitar - the only reason i could think of would be if the coagulation cascade occurs in the vessels (in particular the small capillary beds of the extremities) then the osmolarity of the blood would change and potentially become more permeable (maybe platelets and coagulation factors help "keep" the blood in the vessels due to increasing blood osmolarity?) and you could start to bleed out that way.... maybe?
 
I was told :
"Basically your body just starts clotting everywhere, and when all the clotting agents are used up, you start bleeding."

I don't know what meds the dear little sweetheart was given but I do know she was given one or two other meds besides the gas. I'll ask re the meds.

Has anyone ever heard of this happening to a rattie before?
 
In the post this was found?

Definitive diagnosis depends on the result of:

* Thrombocytopenia
* Prolongation of prothrombin time and activated partial thromboplastin time
* A low fibrinogen concentration
* Increased levels of fibrin degradation products


My Radar who had hematuria also had several organs that bled out but it wasn't DIC, it was due to the huge blood loss in the bladder, which was caused by bacteria.
There can be several causes for DIC. It would be near impossible to tell. I don't think I'd have the siblings go through surgery though.
 
that is prob a fancy term the vet threw out there to save face. i know vets say DIC and it means "death is coming" from they arent sure what.

i do not think this is very common at all with the amount of rats that we all know have been under anesthetic and have made it through fine. were the two rats lost related? there may be something to it if they are.
 
I looked up Xylazine (the extra drug used on the first one who died) on google and I found some interesting stuff on this site: http://www.uaf.edu/iacuc/training/modul ... onist.html

For sedative action we are most interested in the receptors located in the central nervous system; however, you must recognize that alpha-2 receptors are located throughout the body and use of these drugs produce profound effects on other organ systems (see side effects below). There is a wide species variation in optimum dosage. For example, most bovids are very sensitive and require doses in the range of 0.08-0.1 mg/kg whereas equids and cervids are less sensitive and require doses in the range of 0.1-2mg/kg. It is absolutely crucial that you check published dose rates for the species in question before using these drugs.
Click to expand...

and also:
Side effects:

Xylazine is probably the most misused drug with many people ignoring the serious side effects. Although relatively safe with a wide margin of safety in many species it can produce life threatening side effects that are not readily apparent without proper monitoring of the anesthetized/immobilized animal. Now that xylazine is relatively inexpensive there is a tendency to "give a little extra". The cost of medetomidine keeps people a little more responsible. DO NOT INDISCRIMINANTLY PULL EXTRA DRUG INTO THE SYRINGE OR "TOP OFF" THE DART WITH THIS DRUG!

Suppresses insulin release thereby raising plasma glucose concentration and may cause glycosuria. Reduces gastrointestinal motility and may cause bloating in ruminants. Causes vomiting in canids and felids. Can produce profound bradycardia (reduced heart rate); increased cardiac sensitivity to catecholamines; marked decease in cardiac output and, although there may be a transient increase in blood pressure, it rapidly drops due to a decrease in CNS sympathetic outflow. Loss of thermoregulation with a tendency to become hyperthermic.
Click to expand...

So perhaps there was not enough info, or inaccurate info, about the dosage for rats. If there was a rapid drop of blood pressure that would be the same kind of reaction as in shock, which is listed as one of the triggers to DIC in humans.

Another interesting fact about this drug is that

Contraindications: Rutting muskox, caribou and reindeer bulls are exquisitely sensitive to these drugs. Use with extreme caution.
Click to expand...

I wonder if there is something about the hormone levels.

I now remember that a rat in heat is at higher risk during a spay.

There is so much we don't know. I hope that Joanne's vet can find some answers.
 
rompun(xylazine) is not used very much anymore in small animal medicine because it is so easy to give a wrong dose with dire consequences. it is used in large animal more or a sedative in dogs and cats that are quite fractious just before euthanasia.
 
I don't know. Phoebe and Mimi both had a bit of snotty nose, runny eyes earlier in the week, so I had started them on Baytril. Maybe Phoebe had a heart problem that was undiagnosed? Maybe the extra fluid (eyes/nose) wasn't a flare up of Myco, but instead a sign of congestive heart failure. She wasn't very active compared to the other girls. Sometimes she didn't want to come out and play when the other girls were chomping at the bit to get out. Maybe that was why she was snuggly - not as much energy. Mimi's eye/nose crud has seemed to clear up. I'll keep her on the Baytril for a while yet just in case.
 
Good vets do not operate on ill animals.
Vets always do a health check to make sure an animal is healthy .... esp. with rats and respir. issues.
I have had rats who later showed symptoms of heart problems undergo surgery with no problems ... and the vet suspects that they were born with heart problems ...
Dr. Carney recently decided not to spay Toofer because her nose was a bit snuffie ...

Sounds like Phoebe and Mimi were both ill and the vet should have decided not to operate on them. If they were well enough for surgery then it should not have been a factor.

You trusted your vet to know what she was doing ... and that was her professional responsibility. She obviously did do enough research on rats and doesn`t make good decisions when it comes to the health care of rats.

Phoebe should not have died and her death was caused by a vet who doesn`t know what she is doing and didn`t bother checking out anaesthetic . When she was unable to get them under deep enough with just the iso gas (there is a problem with the vet or her equiptment), she should have stopped!!!

This vet should not be treating rats.
Knowledge can be learned but her judgement can not be trusted.
 

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