Chewing/overgrooming on front paws?

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violet976

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Nov 17, 2009
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My girl Nibs has been overgrooming her front paws, lower arms & one armpit (just the one) since I got her (about 2 months ago). My first thought would have been bugs, but she was dosed two months in a row with the rest of the rats, and I don't see any indication of bugs on any of them, nor do I see any patches of fur loss/scabs/etc on any of the other rats. At first I just noticed a spot or so & assumed she had porophyn on her paws, but it's beginning to get worse & I can see her as she grooms those areas. The fur on the bottom of her arms is going away , her arms are a bit red and she has a few tiny areas now where she's broken the skin & there a smidge of blood (just the very surface, nothing deep). & it's definitely starting to bother her more, as I can see her sometimes holding one of those paws up when she stands. I did ask my vet, but being that we're focused on trying to get her chronic respiratory issues under control, those paws only got the briefest of looksies and he wasn't sure past the bug possibility... but she's been dosed already.

Of course, I can certainly dose her again if that's the consensus, but I did not see any improvement the first go round and she definitely got the right dose. She's been on baytril & doxy since I brought her home, and I can't think of anything else that might possibly play a role in this. I use fleece bedding, and wash everything with this laundry detergent & some vinegar, and do not use any fabric softeners, fragrance or dryer sheets.

For diet, she eats HT lab blocks (for the average adults, I believe), with veggies, fruits and different nuts/grains/pasta/rice (no junk food).

Has anyone seen anything like this? She's not missing fur anywhere else, no other scabs that I can see & her back legs look good. I'm at a loss on this one.
 
Well, there are diseases that can cause this, other parasites, allergies, bacterial infections, so on so on.

But often rats do something called "barbering". They just start shaving, in the long run, lol. They groom their hair so bad they form bald patches, often on the front legs. They usually do it from stress, boredom, or sometimes just because, and they can do it to themselves or another rat. There really isn't any reason to treat these, because barbering should never cause scabs or cuts, witch can easily get infected.

Could you maybe upload a picture?
 
I'll think I got some good enough photos. My camera doesn't do well with anything that close up, and my videos even the best light in the house are wretched dark. But if it comes down to just barbering, she's most definitely breaking the skin which is why I'm concerned. It also bothers me because when she stands, I often see her holding her right front paw in the air, as if it's sore.

These photos are pretty much exactly what I see in person. You can probably view the larger versions of the images HERE, if needed.

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You can see the armpit in this one, which perhaps could be old age fur loss, but it's so close to the affected area I have to wonder about it.
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What do you think? I'm certainly willing to try the revo again just in case the 2 months worse wasn't enough & we're still thinking mites. I just can't imagine if that were the case that after 2 months she isn't showing signs of this elsewhere on her body, or that the other rats aren't showing any signs of fur loss. But it seems that something is most definitely going on, so any input is greatly appreciated.

I also have to add, that I didn't notice this so much when she arrived, it was something that just began catching my attention & getting worse, which makes me wonder about something environmental. I can't imagine what it would be, since I thought that detergent was pretty basic stuff. I suppose I could try plain baking soda and vinegar instead. Beyond that, I can't think of anything that should be aggravating her that she might touch... ?
 
Doesn't seem environmental, or it would affect more than her front paws. It's definitely worse than the usual barbering. Does she seem otherwise distressed? Does she get bullied by anyone or ostracized?

Definitely a puzzle. It will be interesting to see whether anyone else has seen anything like this.
 
She has been battling chronic respiratory issues since before I got my hands on her. The rescue stated that the conditions she & her group came from were pretty bad, and they warned me that she would most likely be a chronic girl. She's been on a high dose of Baytril/Doxy for nearly 2 months, and was unable to hold her own without it. I then got a neb for her & have been using it with saline only, then a bronchodilator was added but no real relief was gained. & a few weeks ago dex & pred were finally considered, but she's only shown real improvement with the dex, so we're now in the trial & error phase of finding out how little she needs to hold her own. So, she's currently on baytril/doxy/dex, and finally showing some relief from the respiratory problems at least.

As for cagemates, I've never noticed anyone doing more than the nice, mutual grooms on her. Never any sign that one might be causing this. I have on many occasions seen her grooming her own paws in a matter that leads me to believe this is of her own doing. When it comes to bullying, her and her sister bully the boys, but that's about it.

The only other thing I can come up with (if bugs/mites are completely off the table) would possibly be dietary change, as it would make since that it progressed after I got my hands on her. Perhaps I'm giving her too much of something? She is a crazy food hoarder, which makes it difficult to make sure the others get their share before she runs up and takes theirs as well, but if anyone has any ideas of what foods might cause an issue like this if given too much/too little, I can certainly begin trying to work around that as well.
 
I would try something like Rescue Remedy to see if she's stressed out and needs that little boost to relax and maybe Ivermectin, just in case it is a parasite and Revo isn't doing the trick. You can also try switching blocks to see if it's something in her diet... at least most rats like Oxbow now. I've had some pretty compulsive barberers, you don't often see breaks in the skin (IMO).
 
That poor thing... it does look like really hard barbering. You can also buy bitter apple and apply it on her front to discourage the grooming.
 
I wonder if it is the Dex? Some humans react badly to steroids, becoming depressed or anxious -- occasionally even psychotic. It will be interesting to see if the behaviour lessens as the Dex dose goes down.

Poor sweetie, she's had a tough time.
 
It shouldn't be the Dex, as she only started it a week and a half or so ago, and I've been seeing this building for at least a month now. Perhaps the baytril or doxy, but I've never heard of that happening before. As for stress, the only stress I would pinpoint would be the breathing issues themselves, which have been rough on her until this point.
 
You've done everything you can. There may not be a solution. At least now she can breathe, so her overall stress is way down from before. Please keep us all posted.
 

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