Changing cage dynamics?UPDATE

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Melissa's ZOO

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Joined
Sep 4, 2007
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Location
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
So I have five girls about to reach 2 years and five girls a year and younger.

Lilly is not doing so well (20 months) chronic URI and I noticed her rear end is not working like it used to.

I have the two story FN and thought about separating into old and new. But I don't know.

My only main reason for doing this is Lilly, Sunflower is constantly going at her making her scream and she gets all puffed out and just looks unhappy about it.

Everyone else gets along so well and they all love one another and sleep with each other.

But when Sunflower goes at Lilly is is relentless and stresses her out.

My other girls the same age as Lilly are still very active and play with the little ones, that is why I am having a problem with separating them. Willow my young hairless loves to sleep with Flower and Lilly. But the rest of the young crew kind of stick together and sleep together. Any suggestions, they would still get playtime together.
 
This is a big dilemma for a lot of us. Sometimes I think it's best to separate but then I find they do miss the bond they've made with the younger ones. I guess you could try it out. If it's better, then great, if not, add them back together.
 
Thanks, I think I will try it out tonight since it is cage cleaning night and see how it goes that way they will get out time together and then spend the night seperated.

I think I will let Jazmine (19 months and she keeps up with them) stay with the young ones and let Willow stay with Lilly and Flower since she is always sleeping with them. Willow loves her old ladies.
 
So until last night I had let everything be and did not seperate anyone.

But last night was the last sraw. Sunflower was going at Lilly so bad that her ears were all bloody and she was screaming bloody murder and it was all Sunflower. I felt bad at first for seperating them but this morning Lilly i was a little more lively and seems so much happier. You can tell some of the babies are not happy about the change but I figure they will get over it. And i am pretty sure Sunflower was going after Ivy as well she has scratches all over her shoulder and back and last night I saw Sunflower picking on her as well.

So my question is what do I do if Sunflower deceides to pick on the babies. Let her live alone?
 
How old is Sunflower? She's quite the little pest. I have one like it, my Nessie but when I watch them closely, it's all part of play. However, my Nessie is in a cage of younger ones.
Try the separation, it might be the thing to do.
Another thing you could try, give Sunflower more one on one if you can, extra cuddles, take her out of the cage, keep her with you, more socializing. Maybe it will help calm her?
 
Sunflower is only six months old. She seems to be doing great with the ones her age now since I have separated them but when I let them out for playtime all 10 together last night she went right after Lilly, all puffed up and just grabbing her ears making them bleed again, Lily as a chronic URi I cannot seem to get rid of so when Sunflower does this her breathing gets horrible. Lilly's hind end is not working like it used to either she has trouble jumping and when she wakes up she kind of drags her rear at first. She tries to run and hide from Sunflower but she just runs her down or gets her in a corner and just goes at her.

So I just put Lilly back in her cage and she seems fine with that, she just sleeps or grooms herself. I let Lilly back out when I put everyone up and I am preparing their dinner and she seems so much happier, no more screaming or being dragged by her ears she just runs around exploring and bruxxing. Lilly is the only one Sunflower does this to. Other than Ivy but Ivy is healthy and able to fight back.

I will try the one on one socialization and see if it helps. She always has this angry look on her face, like she is just out of her mind :wink:

Lilly has obvious cataracts in both eyes and sleep a lot more than usual. I never had a problem with her biting me when I touch her but I have to make sure she smells me first before I can pet her without her biting me, but once she knows it is me she is fine with it.

I know that in dogs an aggressive dog can ruin a calm dog's attitude in no time by always going at the nice dog and I figure rats are the same way.

PS I know when she does it to Lilly it is not playing she being aggressive. I grabbed Sunflower to give Lilly a chance to hide and Sunflower was pissed and all puffed out and the minute I put her down she went right for her again. When she plays with the ones her own age she does not get puffed out and they dont roll around in one big hair ball mess screaming like Lilly does.
 
So the older girls in the top FN and the young ones on the bottom of the FN. Everyone seems to be doing fine with the seperation, especially Lilly, she seems so much happier.

I let them have playtime together and no one gets all huffy about. But poor Willow my young hairless acts as if she misses Lilly and Flower so much, she just attacks them grooming them and she litterally looks like she is smiling.

So since I really don't want to seperated the orignal 5 old ladies do you think it would be okay to put Willow up top. There would be 6 girls top and 4 on the bottom. They get anywhere from 1 to 3 hours everynight of free range.

Sunflower did last night get Lilly trapped in the Run-about ball/hammock. Lilly screamed bloody murder and flung herself out of it.

I have been doing individual time with Sunflower (which she hates) and she still goes after her.
 
Sunflower sure has issues.
But at least things have calmed down since the separation. That's good that they can at least have out time together. What about giving Willow some visits with the oldies?
 
I don't think it will be enough for her. She has always slept with the two of them. Lilly and Flower were my first two rats and are very bonded with one another. When I let everyone out together I lower the center ladder and Willow immediately heads to the top and gets in the ball with Lilly and just grooms her and bruxes away. You can tell she really loves her. Lilly is always the last to come out for out time it takes her a minute to wake up and get around. Her rear end is not to great and she has a very prominent cataract in one eye and another forming in the other eye.

I think I might try my original plan and put Jazmine with the young ones, she really holds her own with them and she and Mimzy tend to run together when they are out together and put Willow up top with the ladies. Jazmine is a bit of a loner and usually sleep alone somewhere all curled up.
 
So, I have to say that seperating my old ladies from the young ladies was the best thing I could have done. Lilly and Ivy (old) no longer have scabs all over their shoulders and on their ears. So whoever was doing the tormenting is not longer tormenting them.

The young ladies are doing great in the bottom part of the FN, and now I know why the whole cage was messy all the time. They are so gross, poop whereever they feel like fling their veggies, fruit whatever I happen to give them that night all over the floor, lay in it, sleep it whatever they want basically.

It also works out great for free range. Everyone is so excited to see one another that they run around grooming their long lost cage mates, wrestling, chasing, and loving on whoever runs by. So they seem to be getting a lot more exercise.

And Sunflower is no longer relentlessly going after Lilly. So Lilly is no longer stressed and pouffy all the time. So it was win win situation.
 
That must be such a relief! Sounds like you made the right decisions.

I will soon have the same kind of decisions to make. I have a cage of five almost-twos, a cage of five 13-months, and I will be getting back 2-3 of my six-month-old foster girls. Today I adopted another young "girl" who turned out to be a boy.

the two established groups of five each have an FN. I don't really want to have a third cage to clean, so I hope to integrate the young ones with one of the groups of older girls. I think that my almost-twos might not react well to the stress of new roomies at this point, so I hope that the 13-month girls will accept a few more into their colony. I dread the intros, because the alpha is very fierce and she still puffs up like a porcupine and snorts at the older girls. She could eat the young ones for breakfast!
 

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