Canadian Rat Breeders

[Ratanist]

I don't why you guys would say there are NO reputable breeders in ALL of Canada? I got two of my rats, Pashmina and Penelope, from a new breeder in Surrey, BC. She's being mentored by SITH rattery in New Westminster and their rats are pedigreed as well. :|

We've not been introduced to these breeders maybe? I know SITH had a good reputation but heard that was coming under fire, I could be wrong. Perhaps we are jumping the gun on that particular comment but even if SITH and your breeder are still considered ethical and reputable they shouldn't be an option in this case as the OP is located at the other end of the country and I do not feel there is a safe way to ship rats unless they were driven.

Oh great - LOL! What have I supposedly done now to "come under fire?" I'm almost afraid to ask!

As for my short lived affiliation with Sinsational Rattery, I can assure you that was a mistake. When I agreed to mentor Sinsational Rats, I was of the understanding that they were looking for advice and guidance on how to establish themselves as a reputable rattery. As far as I was concerned, step one was to move from breeding pet store rats to working with healthy long established pedigreed lines. I soon discovered that they did not intend to stop breeding from pet store lines however, nor did they seem to want to listen to my advice on anything else, so I very quickly severed the mentorship relationship. I immediately removed the notation on my website that I was mentoring them. If they still have it on their website, I really have no control over that. I notice their website hasn't been updated for a while now, so they probably just haven't got around to it yet.

RTV, I am delighted to hear that you were able to rescue a ratty close to home. I always promote rescue rats first and foremost to anyone who contacts me looking for pet rats. I am in my 60s and have been active in animal rescue all my life. Whether through the rescues I volunteer with, or through my rattery, I do not ship rats to people I don't know, so I'm sorry to say I could not have offered to help out, even if you wanted me to. I always like to do a home visit before adopting out ratties to someone I don't know, and it's impossible to do that with people who live outside my area. I also like to be able to take my babies and/or rescue rats back if any problems arise. People never think there are going to be problems, but I have learned through my 30 years of rat homing experience, that things can and do happen - sudden allergies, serious illness, even totally unexpected moves out of the country. Knowing that my babies have all been placed close to home gives me the peace of mind that I will be able to take them back easily if need be. Having said that, I actually have shipped rats by air a few times, but on fairly short direct flights, in temperate weather, and only to people I knew, or had gotten to know really well over a long period of time on forums such as this one. I REALLY prefer not to ship though, have not done it years, and very likely won't be doing it again.

Happily, I have never managed to produce enough babies to quite meet the supply of people looking for them locally, despite screening carefully and turning a lot of people away. There have been times when I've had people on my waiting list for well over a year, sometimes as long as 2 years. For some strange reason, despite the poor reputation I have somehow acquired with a few of the people on this forum, those who actually know me, and the lines that I breed, just keep coming back for more, and recommending me to their friends. As much as it really does hurt my feelings every time I see someone here state that there are no reputable rat breeders in Canada, I realize that no matter what I do or say, or manage to add to my website, I am never going to please all of the people all of the time. I am very proud of the reputation I have worked so hard to establish locally, and of the many friends that I've made in pet rat circles worldwide, and that's good enough for me.

 

[M0onkist]

I think the problem with 'there are no reputable/ethical breeders in Canada' is because the darned country is too large! For those of us in the eastern half, BC seems to almost be a different country (certainly if you factor the hours of travel by air, or days by car). Plus there's that whole annoying 'no rats allowed in Alberta/Saskatchewan' thing, which makes driving a rat from BC illegal as well as impossible.

It's definitely nothing personal, Ratanist. I think there are too few really good breeders in all of North America, to be honest... Too few really good breeders in the whole world.

 

[ametropia]

I think blanket-statements hurt more than they help. If you think about it (and it doesn't take long to come up with examples) we don't tolerate blanket-statements in many segments of society.. it is considered "unethical" and intolerant to make negative blanket-statements about (as simply one example) races or cultures .. but yet people are more than happy to put it forward here.

"There are NO ethical breeders in Canada" is a blanket-statement and frankly has no place being uttered unless you've personally visited each and every single rattery in the entire country and have come up with objective evidence to support your claim. You can say "I don't believe there are any ethical breeders in Canada" all you like, but it makes me a bit ill to see people making "statements of fact" that are nothing but assumptions.

That's what makes me sad.

 

[Dazzle87]

I get what you're saying, but I strongly disagree about needing to visit a rattery to know if it is bad or good. I can honestly say a lot of ratteries I've never visited have unethical practices, this is based on what is said on their site. If they say they breed high white, or unpedigreed rats, I don't care how great the care they receive is, I don't need to see that, because it doesn't negate the fact that they have unethical breeding practices. Being a nice person who cares does not make someone a good breeder. I've noticed a lot of people's assesments of how good a breeder is is based on whether they are nice and treat their rats well. While those are good qualities, being a good breeder needs to go a lot deeper than that.

I know nothing about SITH, so I don't know if they are ethical or not, but if SITH is while people perhaps should say there's maybe one ethical breeder in Canada, it's not necessarily meant to be a slight, or is perhaps forgotten.

 

[KTyne]

I've definitely got to say the Sinsational Rattery has totally lost any sympathy I had for them before.
The "breeder" just recently bred her hairless rat KNOWING that most hairless rats don't lactate after giving birth, yet she still bred her. Apparently she knew that fact and was counting on another rat she'd bred at the same time to be a foster for the babies when they were born.
Needless to say neither of the rats she bred at the same time lactated after their births and so the hairless mom's babies had to be hand fed until they could find another foster mom for them.
Ugh.. I wish I had never gotten rats from her. Not only because I supported her breeding but the rats I got, as much as I love them, are STILL skittish around people and are generally extremely shy..
My Bijoux, who is from a PETSTORE, is 100 times more friendly and licky and lovey. She loves everyone, and the "breeder" rats are the shy ones. *sigh* ^_~

 

[Dazzle87]

I've definitely got to say the Sinsational Rattery has totally lost any sympathy I had for them before.
The "breeder" just recently bred her hairless rat KNOWING that most hairless rats don't lactate after giving birth, yet she still bred her. Apparently she knew that fact and was counting on another rat she'd bred at the same time to be a foster for the babies when they were born.
Needless to say neither of the rats she bred at the same time lactated after their births and so the hairless mom's babies had to be hand fed until they could find another foster mom for them.
Ugh.. I wish I had never gotten rats from her. Not only because I supported her breeding but the rats I got, as much as I love them, are STILL skittish around people and are generally extremely shy..
My Bijoux, who is from a PETSTORE, is 100 times more friendly and licky and lovey. She loves everyone, and the "breeder" rats are the shy ones. *sigh* ^_~

OMG that is disgusting! Not all lines of hairless rats have lactation problems, but to breed one that you know does?! And purposely creating a situation where another mother may have to do twice the work?! That is so terrible.

She obviously breeds too many litters at a time to properly socialize them (two at a time is too much), and doesn't select for temperament. A breeders rats should not be skittish at all. I'm sorry, but, at least you've learned from the mistake.

 

[KTyne]

I have a feeling that her hairless rat was from a petstore too so she didn't know the history. She got three hairless babies from that litter and she was all excited because that proved that the stud carried the hairless gene. I have no doubt that they will breed this poor hairless lady again. :'(

*edit- I have DEFINITELY learned my lesson!! Only rescues for me from now on!!!

 

[Ratanist]

I've definitely got to say the Sinsational Rattery has totally lost any sympathy I had for them before.
The "breeder" just recently bred her hairless rat KNOWING that most hairless rats don't lactate after giving birth, yet she still bred her. Apparently she knew that fact and was counting on another rat she'd bred at the same time to be a foster for the babies when they were born.
Needless to say neither of the rats she bred at the same time lactated after their births and so the hairless mom's babies had to be hand fed until they could find another foster mom for them.

I wasn't even going to go there but yes, sadly, that was pretty much the last straw for me in trying to mentor them. I have mentored plenty of new breeders over the years, and I have been fortunate to have had some awesome mentors myself, and to me the first rule of a mentoring relationship is the mentor gives advice based on their knowledge and experience, and the mentee follows that advice. Unfortunately it seemed that Sinsational Rats was hardly ever willing to follow any of my advice and it was on those grounds that I severed the relationship. I can't tell you how strongly I recommended against breeding that hairless petstore rat. I told them, and other's told them as well, that most petstore lines do not lactate. I also warned them that hairless mothers very often accidentally smother their babies, and sure enough 5 babies were smothered the first night, even though they already knew by then that the mother couldn't lactate. They seemed confident that by breeding another doe at the same time as the hairless, all their bases would be covered, but as sometimes happens, the second litter didn't work out either. The second mother's babies were stillborn and she too was unable to nurse. Sinsational Rats would have been equally hooped though, if the second doe had produced an extra large litter, the chances of that were very good, since all of their litters have been large. I even tried to get one of my does to foster their babies but had no luck. They would probably have lost the whole litter, had not one of their other girls, who had just weaned her litter, managed to get her milk back and take them in. That was nothing short of a miracle, and something I've only heard of happening a few times before, in all the years I've had rats. Rats can be such amazing creatures sometimes!

To give Sinsational Rats credit, they were terribly upset when all of this happened, they did work around the clock for 4 days to keep those babies alive with supplimental feedings, they did get the second doe the emergency spay that she needed, they do have an excellent set up of cages, play area and toys, and they provide good food and vet care... but as someone here just said, being a caring pet keeper, does not equal being a good breeder. As for the petstore lines that they insist on working with, I don't think they have had rats, or been breeding them for very long, so unfortunately the health, longevity and temperament of the lines are still complete unknowns. I just wish I had been able that point across to them, but believe me I have tried! And yes, I also fear that they have plans to continue working with this hairless line. Even though I have attempted to help them line up pet homes, I see that they are still planning to keep both a male and female hairless from the litter. Honestly, I just don't understand it, and I have been very open in telling them that.

 

[ratamataz]

Ratanist, back in late 2006 I'd gotten four boys from MLR, and two of them had SITH lines. I quickly checked her old website and it was SITH/ROUS Purple Rain that was the mum of two of my boys. I couldn't have asked for sweeter, friendlier rats, I miss them quite a bit.

 

[Ratanist]

Ratanist, back in late 2006 I'd gotten four boys from MLR, and two of them had SITH lines. I quickly checked her old website and it was SITH/ROUS Purple Rain that was the mum of two of my boys. I couldn't have asked for sweeter, friendlier rats, I miss them quite a bit.

Awe, that's so good to hear! I remember Purple Rain very well. It's a fantastic line, and one that we are still working to improve on. Two of my current litters are direct descendants from that line.

 

[ratamataz]

Ratanist, back in late 2006 I'd gotten four boys from MLR, and two of them had SITH lines. I quickly checked her old website and it was SITH/ROUS Purple Rain that was the mum of two of my boys. I couldn't have asked for sweeter, friendlier rats, I miss them quite a bit.

Awe, that's so good to hear! I remember Purple Rain very well. It's a fantastic line, and one that we are still working to improve on. Two of my current litters are direct descendants from that line.

Oh how neat! That's awesome, I'll have to go to your site and check out pics of Isey and Charlie's relatives!

Here, I thought I'd share Purple Rain's boys! They were so wonderful. :heart:

Here's Issac.

And here's Charlie.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Ratanist, back in late 2006 I'd gotten four boys from MLR, and two of them had SITH lines. I quickly checked her old website and it was SITH/ROUS Purple Rain that was the mum of two of my boys. I couldn't have asked for sweeter, friendlier rats, I miss them quite a bit.

What does MLR stand for?

 

[Ratanist]

What does MLR stand for?

Mount Lehman Rattery in Abbotsford BC. Unfortunately they had to stop breeding a few years ago due to illness. I ended up taking in 22 two elderly rats from them, rehoming some, keeping most.

Thank you for sharing those pix ratamataz. I can see the family resemblance. The two current litters that line was crossed into are the "Tasty Taters" and the as yet unnamed "Russian Silver" litter - Demetri X Leah.

 

[PitLuvs]

And here's Charlie.

Hopefully... maybe... someday... I'd love to have a ratters like this. :heart: *Sigh* Until there are non needing homes, I will continue with whoever needs me. Gorgeous little man!

 

[ratamataz]

Thank you for sharing those pix ratamataz. I can see the family resemblance. The two current litters that line was crossed into are the "Tasty Taters" and the as yet unnamed "Russian Silver" litter - Demetri X Leah.

Thanks for the link! Beautiful babies, no doubt they'll be as sweet as ever! :heart:

 

[Moon]

I don't why you guys would say there are NO reputable breeders in ALL of Canada? I got two of my rats, Pashmina and Penelope, from a new breeder in Surrey, BC. She's being mentored by SITH rattery in New Westminster and their rats are pedigreed as well. :|

We've not been introduced to these breeders maybe? I know SITH had a good reputation but heard that was coming under fire, I could be wrong. Perhaps we are jumping the gun on that particular comment but even if SITH and your breeder are still considered ethical and reputable they shouldn't be an option in this case as the OP is located at the other end of the country and I do not feel there is a safe way to ship rats unless they were driven.

Oh great - LOL! What have I supposedly done now to "come under fire?" I'm almost afraid to ask!

Sorry, I can't recall exactly what I had in mind but I had read/heard someone having a concern about something on your site... I worded myself poorly. I don't follow the breeder scene closely but I tried to make my post clear that I wasn't 100% informed.

 

[Katzedecimal]

Hi Ratanist! Very pleased to see you here!

What you described, we had the same thing happen just last year, right here on the Shack -- a wanna-breed came here 'seeking advice', then promptly turned her back on all of it and set up shop as a classic BYB. And in true BYB form, she spread her charisma to others and now there's a cottage industry of BYBs in interior BC. I'd not be surprised if your failed apprentice is leaving your name up on her website in order to give herself an air of legitimacy. So the whole thing has left a souuuuur taste in Shackers' mouths.

However, one of the Shack's respected members is a truly ethical, knowledgeable breeder in the US, who knows genetics and knows her lines well. So we know they're out there, we also know they're verrrrry hard to find :lol: We'd love to be able to say 'we have one in Canada' :joy:

 

[Nekopan]

Hi Lizzy, nice to see you here. You may remember me as "that crazy person who sent you an email recently". :lol:

This forum has a very strong rescue mentality and a lot of people do not approve of breeders for any reason. I am certain they don't know about how much you are involved in the rescue scene. I mean, how many breeders are approved by rescues? It seems in Ontario and the maritime provinces there a lot of ratteries popping up that are not doing things the right way, and the members here are cleaning up their messes. Not to mention previously ethically thought of ratteries like Evergreen are having adopters pop up here that have rats with megacolon and other health issues. I can see why some people are starting to claim that Canada has no ethical ratteries.

What you described, we had the same thing happen just last year, right here on the Shack -- a wanna-breed came here 'seeking advice', then promptly turned her back on all of it and set up shop as a classic BYB. And in true BYB form, she spread her charisma to others and now there's a cottage industry of BYBs in interior BC. I'd not be surprised if your failed apprentice is leaving your name up on her website in order to give herself an air of legitimacy. So the whole thing has left a souuuuur taste in Shackers' mouths.

Just to highlight that I'm not crazy. Some less-than-stellar ratteries have seemingly gone to great lengths to cover up their origins, but the evidence is still out there.

 

[xxchelle]

I mean, how many breeders are approved by rescues? It seems in Ontario and the maritime provinces there a lot of ratteries popping up that are not doing things the right way, and the members here are cleaning up their messes.

Personally, and I might get flak for saying this, I really like ethical breeders. They do very good work, when it's done properly, and both myself, and ethical breeders, are working "against" the BYBs and mills, if that makes sense. So we're almost on the same side. However, it's really hard to think of ethical breeders when Ontario has probably over two dozen really REALLY bad BYBs. Neko hit the nail on the head about cleaning up their messes, I had the pleasure of shutting down a well known BYB in Ontario myself, and it was a nightmare, a disaster, the rats were in awful condition and continue to deteriorate daily, breaking my heart all the time (as well as Shelagh's, she took the boys from that rescue while I took the girls).

I wish there were more ethical breeders, and less BYBs and mills, but I seem to get more and more jaded by the day. Heh. But I do know ethical breeders are out there! And I applaud what they are trying to do for rat health and longevity. It's just very hard to find the ones who are doing it properly.

 

[KTyne]

People need to stop looking at pets as property.. then maybe back yard breeding and cruelty would go way down.
I doubt it'll ever happen, but one can hope.