'buckyballs' DOUBLE rat life expectancy via Justine S. on fb

[ratkin412]

Justine S. posted this on the facebook Rat Shack page, but I thought it was an important article to archive here:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/fullerene-c60-administration-doubles-rat-lifespan-with-no-toxicity

excerpt: "Researchers at the University of Paris and colleagues fed the molecule fullerene (C60 or “buckyballs”) dissolved in olive oil to rats and found it almost doubles their lifespan, with no chronic toxicity"


Imagine our rattie friends living four to six years! :nod:

 

[Godmother]

Sounds too good to be true, but if it's real I'd be the first to sign up.

 

[temblabamomo]

That's interesting. Does sound too good to be true though. And I wonder what their quality of life is like around 4 years...are they still active, or just tired old bumps on a log?

 

[crumbilina]

Darn!
I can't even access the research article at my university. I wanted to see if it was true or if the results looked faked.

I guess I'll have to keep looking.

 

[Nekopan]

I was able to access the full article. Here's what it says about the effect on the lifespan of rats. Interestingly, dosing with just plain olive oil also lengthened their lifespan.

[spoil:3aq3qy4a]3.3. Chronic toxicity and effects of C60 on lifespan of rats

Fig. 3 shows the animal survival and growth. After five months of treatment (M15) one rat treated with water only exhibited some palpable tumours in the abdomen region. Due to the rapid development of tumours (about 4 cm of diameter) this rat died at M17. As rats are known to be sensitive to gavages, we decided to stop the treatment for all rats and to observe their behaviour and overall survival.

All remaining animals survived with no apparent sign of behavioural trouble until M25 (Fig. 3a). At the end of M25 the animals of the control groups showed signs of ulcerative dermatitis with ageing while C60-treated animals remained normal. As the growths of all surviving animals showed no significant difference until M30 (Fig. 3b) indicating that the treatment did not alter their food intake, we continued observing their survival.

At M38 all water-treated control rats were dead (Fig. 3a). This agrees with the expected lifespan of this animal species that is thirty to thirty six months. At this time 67% of olive-oil-treated rats and 100% of C60-treated rats were still alive.

The survival distributions for C60-olive oil-treated rats and controls were estimated by the non-parametric Kaplan–Meier estimator (Fig. 3) and compared by a log-rank estimated test. The estimated median lifespan (EML) for the C60-treated rats was 42 months while the EMLs for control rats and olive oil-treated rats were 22 and 26 months, respectively. These are increases of 18 and 90% for the olive-oil and C60-treated rats, respectively, as compared to controls.

The log-rank test leads to χ2 values (one degree of freedom) of 7.009, 11.302, and 10.454, when we compare water-treated and olive oil-treated rats, water-treated and C60-treated rats, and olive oil-treated and C60-treated rats, respectively. This means that olive oil extends the lifespan of rats with respect to water with a probability of 0.99 while C60-olive oil extends the lifespan of C60-treated rats with a probability of 0.999 and 0.995 with respect to water and olive oil treatments, respectively.[/spoil:3aq3qy4a]

 

[Aida]

Wow. Imagine what this means for humans...

I hate how they tested it on rats, but wow.

 

[NinjaRatMama]

Does sound too good to be true! However, olive oil can't hurt them, right? If getting olive oil once a day or something to that effect won't hurt them I'm totally going to do it! Just dissolving food in olive oil helped those rats, apparently... Who knows if results were faked but if it can't hurt them it's most definitely worth a try!

 

[crumbilina]

did they do a control group with the C60 dissolved in water?

lol any chance you could email me the pdf. I'm intrigued.

 

[Nekopan]

Sure thing. Anyone who is interested in the full PDF send me a PM with your email address.

 

[NinjaRatMama]

did they do a control group with the C60 dissolved in water?

lol any chance you could email me the pdf. I'm intrigued.

In the part Nekopan shared it says they did a water only group, an olive oil group, & C-60 group - it only mentions C-60 & olive oil together in one spot, but the excerpt in the beginning says they dissolved it in olive oil... So I'm assuming the C-60 treated group is getting the olive oil as well.
What I assume from that small part Neko shared is that C-60 dissolved in plain water would still lengthen their life spans quite a bit (the olive oil only group didn't live as long as C-60 treated rats did so the C-60 must be the most important element in lengthening - out of those 2) But it seems treating with just olive oil & water would also lengthen their life span - It's just that C-60 + olive oil shows to be the most effective.

Nekopan - I wouldn't mind taking a look at it myself, I'll pm you in a minute.

 

[crumbilina]

Oh, I meant as another treatment group to reduce the compiled effect of both olive oil and C60.

So, having a water only group, an olive oil only group, an olive oil and C60 group & a water and C60 group. This would show the direct effect of C60 and take the confounding variable of olive oil out. What if it is the olive oil and C60 combination that is what actually produces the effect and not just the C60 as what I have read is implying.

Kinda like when baytril doesn't work but when you add doxy magic happens lol!

 

[NinjaRatMama]

Oh, I meant as another treatment group to reduce the compiled effect of both olive oil and C60.

So, having a water only group, an olive oil only group, an olive oil and C60 group & a water and C60 group. This would show the direct effect of C60 and take the confounding variable of olive oil out. What if it is the olive oil and C60 combination that is what actually produces the effect and not just the C60 as what I have read is implying.

Kinda like when baytril doesn't work but when you add doxy magic happens lol!

I see your point there... if that is what they're implying. I understand it to show that olive oil alone lengthens their life span but C-60+olive oil lengthens it even more... I don't know why they'd be giving all the credit to C-60. I could understand that if the olive oil alone didn't lengthen the rats' lifespans at all but it did as well...
*scratches head* MUST go read the whole paper now... lol

If baytril didn't work & you added doxy to make it work, but doxy on it's own worked too then you could safely say that it was all doxy... but if a combo of baytril & doxy worked whereas neither doxy nor baytril worked alone then it'd be the combination of the 2, am I right? lol

Basically, they should've done (or someone should do) a group that received C-60 without olive oil, knowing that olive oil has a positive effect as well.

 

[crumbilina]

Oh, I meant as another treatment group to reduce the compiled effect of both olive oil and C60.

So, having a water only group, an olive oil only group, an olive oil and C60 group & a water and C60 group. This would show the direct effect of C60 and take the confounding variable of olive oil out. What if it is the olive oil and C60 combination that is what actually produces the effect and not just the C60 as what I have read is implying.

Kinda like when baytril doesn't work but when you add doxy magic happens lol!

I see your point there... if that is what they're implying. I understand it to show that olive oil alone lengthens their life span but C-60+olive oil lengthens it even more... I don't know why they'd be giving all the credit to C-60. I could understand that if the olive oil alone didn't lengthen the rats' lifespans at all but it did as well...
*scratches head* MUST go read the whole paper now... lol

If baytril didn't work & you added doxy to make it work, but doxy on it's own worked too then you could safely say that it was all doxy... but if a combo of baytril & doxy worked whereas neither doxy nor baytril worked alone then it'd be the combination of the 2, am I right? lol

Basically, they should've done (or someone should do) a group that received C-60 without olive oil, knowing that olive oil has a positive effect as well.

Exactly. lol I missed the doxy on its own category >.< haha

It also depends on how the supplement is administered to the public too. If they plan to encapsulate it in a capsule dissolved in olive oil then I'm ok with the claim. BUT if they just put the powder in the capsule and say that it does this, when really they don't know if it is the combined effect then thats wrong (to me at least).

I'd like to know the sample populations too.

I'll have to pick it apart... after my school work is done tomorrow... er... Thursday
Looking forward to it! lol

 

[Nekopan]

C60 is only soluble in lipids (fats) which was why it was dissolved in olive oil. I don't think there would be much use in giving it with water.

 

[crumbilina]

C60 is only soluble in lipids (fats) which was why it was dissolved in olive oil. I don't think there would be much use in giving it with water.

Ah, that was the other possibility I was thinking.

So if they were to sell it as a supplement it would have to be dissolved in some sort of oil, likely olive oil, although fish oil would be a possibility too I suppose.

Disregard previous comments lol

 

[fumblesquid]

So I've skimmed this thread because I did a report of buck-minister fullerene once. 'Twas an interesting topic. Can't remember enough to really say much on the topic as it relates to rats, though. I just surfaced nanotechnology. I remember the molecule is associated with all sorts of advancements, so this could very well be true.

 

[NinjaRatMama]

C60 is only soluble in lipids (fats) which was why it was dissolved in olive oil. I don't think there would be much use in giving it with water.

Ah, that was the other possibility I was thinking.

So if they were to sell it as a supplement it would have to be dissolved in some sort of oil, likely olive oil, although fish oil would be a possibility too I suppose.

Disregard previous comments lol

The thought had crossed my mind as well, that that might be the why of dissolving it in olive oil. lol
Well, we have our answers I guess! They basically need to be together.
Except now I have a new one, since we were wondering about the effect of C-60 without the olive oil - Would C-60 still lengthen their life span significantly if dissolved in another safe oil? Hmmm...

 

[lilspaz68]

I attempted to read this study and skimmed it overall, but 2 things stood out

2.3. Chronic toxicity and effects of C60 on survival of rats
The rats were housed three per cage and acclimated for 14 days, before dosing.
Three groups of 6 rats (10months old, weighing 465  31 g) were administered daily
for one week, then weekly until the end of the second month and then every two
weeks until the end of the 7th month, by gavages with 1 ml of water or olive oil or
C60 dissolved in olive oil (0.8 mg/ml), respectively.
The rats were weighed before each dosing. Routine observations following
official recommendations [27] were made on all animals inside and outside the cage
once a day throughout the study for signs of departure from normal activity,
morbidity and mortality.

and this...

The survival distributions for C60-olive oil-treated rats and
controls were estimated by the non-parametric KaplaneMeier
estimator (Fig. 3) and compared by a log-rank estimated test. The
estimated median lifespan (EML) for the C60-treated rats was 42
months while the EMLs for control rats and olive oil-treated rats
were 22 and 26 months, respectively. These are increases of 18 and
90% for the olive-oil and C60-treated rats, respectively, as compared
to controls.
The log-rank test leads to c2 values (one degree of freedom) of
7.009, 11.302, and 10.454, when we compare water-treated and
olive oil-treated rats, water-treated and C60-treated rats, and olive
oil-treated and C60-treated rats, respectively. This means that olive
oil extends the lifespan of rats with respect to water with a probability
of 0.99 while C60-olive oil extends the lifespan of C60-treated
rats with a probability of 0.999 and 0.995 with respect towater and
olive oil treatments, respectively

Sooo these rats only lived to 17 months and all the rest is ALL estimated ages. As we know in the more uncontrolled environment of pet rats there are TOO many factors for these to be in any way accurate for our ratters.

 

[Aida]

I attempted to read this study and skimmed it overall, but 2 things stood out

2.3. Chronic toxicity and effects of C60 on survival of rats
The rats were housed three per cage and acclimated for 14 days, before dosing.
Three groups of 6 rats (10months old, weighing 465  31 g) were administered daily
for one week, then weekly until the end of the second month and then every two
weeks until the end of the 7th month, by gavages with 1 ml of water or olive oil or
C60 dissolved in olive oil (0.8 mg/ml), respectively.
The rats were weighed before each dosing. Routine observations following
official recommendations [27] were made on all animals inside and outside the cage
once a day throughout the study for signs of departure from normal activity,
morbidity and mortality.

and this...

The survival distributions for C60-olive oil-treated rats and
controls were estimated by the non-parametric KaplaneMeier
estimator (Fig. 3) and compared by a log-rank estimated test. The
estimated median lifespan (EML) for the C60-treated rats was 42
months while the EMLs for control rats and olive oil-treated rats
were 22 and 26 months, respectively. These are increases of 18 and
90% for the olive-oil and C60-treated rats, respectively, as compared
to controls.
The log-rank test leads to c2 values (one degree of freedom) of
7.009, 11.302, and 10.454, when we compare water-treated and
olive oil-treated rats, water-treated and C60-treated rats, and olive
oil-treated and C60-treated rats, respectively. This means that olive
oil extends the lifespan of rats with respect to water with a probability
of 0.99 while C60-olive oil extends the lifespan of C60-treated
rats with a probability of 0.999 and 0.995 with respect towater and
olive oil treatments, respectively

Sooo these rats only lived to 17 months and all the rest is ALL estimated ages. As we know in the more uncontrolled environment of pet rats there are TOO many factors for these to be in any way accurate for our ratters.

I don't know. I mean, they had to estimate it in the study report- do you want to skim through a chart of every rat and exactly how long it lived, to the last day?

All I know is that experiments, ecpecially once that use government funding, are constantly checked to maintain full control. And they also take forever, so before they release any sure information/start selling it to owners, it's going to take some years and a billion more experiments like this.

 

[crumbilina]

I don't know. I mean, they had to estimate it in the study report- do you want to skim through a chart of every rat and exactly how long it lived, to the last day?

THIS is what science is all about. I can't tell you how long I have spent in a small dark room looking at ONE 3.5cm dish of cells with only ONE treatment and quantifying the phenotype. Its hours! Looking through a chart of every rat should have happened. I still don't know their sample population but that is still no excuse. I sit and look at a lot of cells for hours. Thats just the way it is.

All I know is that experiments, ecpecially once that use government funding, are constantly checked to maintain full control. And they also take forever, so before they release any sure information/start selling it to owners, it's going to take some years and a billion more experiments like this.

I don't know about the states, but this doesn't really happen in Canada. I have never seen a rep for our funding agency come into the lab (it is gov't funded). They pester my supervisor for updates every 6 months, but thats about it. AND from what I hear, they don't even read the updates. And those "billion" more experiments, yes they do need to happen BUT depending on how the paper/information is released the public just runs with it. I mean, look at the whole vaccination and autism thing. This has absolutely NO truth to it. The original article that claimed this effect has been retracted and many more experiments like it have been conducted SHOWING that vaccinations have no effect on autism. Yet, I STILL hear mothers say that they won't vaccinate their child because they are afraid they will get autism. This is an extreme example, but I think it drives the point home that you don't need a reputable experiment, you just need publicity.

The validity and truth to an experiment/research depends on the person making the publication. I just found out last night that the paper that I have based much of my master's on was actually doctored and a lot of the results presented may not have any truth behind it... Its frustrating and annoying since I have battled a LONG time with this project to make it work, only to find that the person who gave me a lot of the information didn't battle and just fudged things. THIS is why I was so critical of this paper. I guess I was a little bitter at the time :giggle:

Just because it is published in a scientific journal doesn't mean that it is true.

HAHA and you ARE right. Science DOES take forever.