aww Walrus is adorable!!
he can sing the Beatles song, I am the Walrus, kookookachoo lol
he can sing the Beatles song, I am the Walrus, kookookachoo lol
Bamboo's Beastie Boys (RIP Loki 24/10/2013)
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Bamboo
Well-Known Member
So, I've been doing some reading on intros to refresh my memory, since I feel like I haven't done one since 'Nam. There are some things that I feel slightly confused on.
First of all, I was always under the impression that putting the cages near or beside each other was bad because it just stressed both of them out. Now, after doing some reading, I'm hearing that yes, it does stress them out initially but ultimately it helps the intro process go smoother because it gets everyone used to living with each other's scents. This makes sense but considering I have never done it this way, I was sort of looking to see if anyone had any thoughts on the matter.
Basically the same thing with putting a handful of one's bedding in the other's cage and vice versa. I was always told not to do it but I'm hearing that it may ultimately be a good thing for the same reason.
Right now they're as separate as possible. They share the same air but they're at opposite ends of the house. Hedwig and Calloway come out on one couch for playtime. Walrus comes out on the futon for playtime. I haven't even begun the intro process yet (not gonna lie, I'm procrastinating a bit because I sense it's going to be difficult lol: 3 males all around the bad age for hormones) I would like to get at least some of them neutered but I'm wondering if I should give it a try first, see how they do and then neuter if necessary.
Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.
First of all, I was always under the impression that putting the cages near or beside each other was bad because it just stressed both of them out. Now, after doing some reading, I'm hearing that yes, it does stress them out initially but ultimately it helps the intro process go smoother because it gets everyone used to living with each other's scents. This makes sense but considering I have never done it this way, I was sort of looking to see if anyone had any thoughts on the matter.
Basically the same thing with putting a handful of one's bedding in the other's cage and vice versa. I was always told not to do it but I'm hearing that it may ultimately be a good thing for the same reason.
Right now they're as separate as possible. They share the same air but they're at opposite ends of the house. Hedwig and Calloway come out on one couch for playtime. Walrus comes out on the futon for playtime. I haven't even begun the intro process yet (not gonna lie, I'm procrastinating a bit because I sense it's going to be difficult lol: 3 males all around the bad age for hormones) I would like to get at least some of them neutered but I'm wondering if I should give it a try first, see how they do and then neuter if necessary.
Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.
Bamboo
Well-Known Member
So, I don't know why but the moment felt right so I began intros with the boys and holy crap, it went much better then expected!
I was expecting a fur flying, squealing hormonal dominance-fest but it actually went really smoothly! I had both groups out all afternoon, so they were all exhausted and I hit me that that could only bode well for intros. I also put about half a cm of warm water in the tub, mixed with some melted peanut butter (lol) to mask each other's scents a little.
I filmed pretty much the whole interaction in segments so feel free to watch along. I'm going to do this like an intro-diary so I can remember stuff that worked for the future. Admittedly, they were only together for about 10 or so minutes but I wanted to end on a positive.
Something else I'm doing is putting a small handful of each other's dirty bedding beside the food dishes. Since eating is a really good social activity, I was thinking that getting used to each other's scents while eating could help? I don't know if that will do anything but it seemed like a good idea lol.
Edit: I can't get the videos to work!! *insert the saddest face ever*
*sigh* I give up...here are the links instead.
[BBvideo 450,375:2g9551pr]http://s971.photobucket.com/user/queenofenglund/media/video-2013-09-05-18-00-09_zps99d871dd.mp4.html[/BBvideo:2g9551pr]
[BBvideo 450,375:2g9551pr]http://s971.photobucket.com/user/queenofenglund/media/video-2013-09-05-17-50-46_zps0df9cc48.mp4.html[/BBvideo:2g9551pr]
[BBvideo 450,375:2g9551pr]http://s971.photobucket.com/user/queenofenglund/media/video-2013-09-05-18-00-09_zps99d871dd.mp4.html[/BBvideo:2g9551pr]
I was expecting a fur flying, squealing hormonal dominance-fest but it actually went really smoothly! I had both groups out all afternoon, so they were all exhausted and I hit me that that could only bode well for intros. I also put about half a cm of warm water in the tub, mixed with some melted peanut butter (lol) to mask each other's scents a little.
I filmed pretty much the whole interaction in segments so feel free to watch along. I'm going to do this like an intro-diary so I can remember stuff that worked for the future. Admittedly, they were only together for about 10 or so minutes but I wanted to end on a positive.
Something else I'm doing is putting a small handful of each other's dirty bedding beside the food dishes. Since eating is a really good social activity, I was thinking that getting used to each other's scents while eating could help? I don't know if that will do anything but it seemed like a good idea lol.
Edit: I can't get the videos to work!! *insert the saddest face ever*
*sigh* I give up...here are the links instead.
[BBvideo 450,375:2g9551pr]http://s971.photobucket.com/user/queenofenglund/media/video-2013-09-05-18-00-09_zps99d871dd.mp4.html[/BBvideo:2g9551pr]
[BBvideo 450,375:2g9551pr]http://s971.photobucket.com/user/queenofenglund/media/video-2013-09-05-17-50-46_zps0df9cc48.mp4.html[/BBvideo:2g9551pr]
[BBvideo 450,375:2g9551pr]http://s971.photobucket.com/user/queenofenglund/media/video-2013-09-05-18-00-09_zps99d871dd.mp4.html[/BBvideo:2g9551pr]
Joanne
Well-Known Member
I'm glad things are going so well!
awww I love it when rats lick each other! looks like Walrus is going to fit right in :heart:
I like the idea of getting them used to each other's scents while eating, although I think I'd go with used hammocks or piles of fleece scraps but I guess bedding works too :giggle:
it looks like a great first intro!
I like the idea of getting them used to each other's scents while eating, although I think I'd go with used hammocks or piles of fleece scraps but I guess bedding works too :giggle:
it looks like a great first intro!
KatTheHippie
Well-Known Member
Before intros, I usually keep cages beside eachother (just far enough away so they can't grab eachother through cage bars though) and every day, I switch them around in the cages. So say, on monday group A is in cage A and group B in cage B. I leave the cages as is, but on tuesday, I put group A in cage B and group B in cage A. I'm sure it must be a little stressful at first, but it gets them used to eachothers scents a lot faster. Then in a week or so (sometimes more or less depending on the rodents) I start intros on mutual turf, usually the couch, or bath tub, and I put down a dish of baby food.. and then eventually they get toys, then move to the normal out time area, and when I feel comfortable, and I have all day to watch them, I put everyone together in one cage and see how they do.
Bamboo
Well-Known Member
OK, so intros are going great...in fact, it's even a little odd. *knock on wood* there has not been a single disagreement over anything, not even a minor one. There has been grooming, snuggling, ignoring each other and of course, butt and ball sniffing but there hasn't been a single complaint. Whenever the sniffee has had enough, they walk away and the sniffer doesn't push the issue. There hasn't been any puffiness, boxing, scent marking or power grooming.
I haven't been documenting it as well as I meant to but here's how it's happened.
Last Thursday, September 5th is when intros began. I filmed most of the first encounters.
Friday the 6th: They all went back in the bathtub, no water this time with watered-PB. No toys. They stayed together for half an hour without incident.
Saturday the 7th: I moved the meetings to a bin cage that hasn't been used by either group. No bedding, no toys and I kept the top off and sat it infront of the couch. I kept them together for half an hour with out incident.
Sunday the 8th: Same as Saturday
Monday the 9th: Same location but extended time together to an hour without incident.
Tuesday the 10th: Added toys (a blanket from each group) and kept them together for almost 2 hours without incident.
Wednesday the 11th: Added a mix of used bedding and a house from each group in addition to the blankets. 2 hours together. Some flipping but no protesting and attention was not directed at balls. It seemed to be quite gentle, though I suspect it's developing hierarchy.
Today - Thursday the 12th: (Exactly one week since intros began) The same as Wednesday. I've added some regular food and water and I've put the lid on the bin cage. They've been together for several hours without incident. Some more flipping but much less the yesterday. I'm going to keep them like this for possibly the rest of the evening, depending on how things go. I'm still supervising of course.
Like I said, definitely not complaining but it seems a little weird. Do I just have the best rats ever or what? Has anybody else had male on male on male intros go so smoothly? Feedback would be appreciated lol
I haven't been documenting it as well as I meant to but here's how it's happened.
Last Thursday, September 5th is when intros began. I filmed most of the first encounters.
Friday the 6th: They all went back in the bathtub, no water this time with watered-PB. No toys. They stayed together for half an hour without incident.
Saturday the 7th: I moved the meetings to a bin cage that hasn't been used by either group. No bedding, no toys and I kept the top off and sat it infront of the couch. I kept them together for half an hour with out incident.
Sunday the 8th: Same as Saturday
Monday the 9th: Same location but extended time together to an hour without incident.
Tuesday the 10th: Added toys (a blanket from each group) and kept them together for almost 2 hours without incident.
Wednesday the 11th: Added a mix of used bedding and a house from each group in addition to the blankets. 2 hours together. Some flipping but no protesting and attention was not directed at balls. It seemed to be quite gentle, though I suspect it's developing hierarchy.
Today - Thursday the 12th: (Exactly one week since intros began) The same as Wednesday. I've added some regular food and water and I've put the lid on the bin cage. They've been together for several hours without incident. Some more flipping but much less the yesterday. I'm going to keep them like this for possibly the rest of the evening, depending on how things go. I'm still supervising of course.
Like I said, definitely not complaining but it seems a little weird. Do I just have the best rats ever or what? Has anybody else had male on male on male intros go so smoothly? Feedback would be appreciated lol
Bamboo
Well-Known Member
Or maybe it's because I've been keeping the cages by each other so they can get used to each other's scents? I've never done it that way before so maybe that's the difference. Every other time I've done male on male intros they've taken forever and have been characterized by fighting lol
Also, the hierarchy seems to be:
Hedwig flips Calloway
Calloway flips Ozzie (he was kind of renamed btw: he's Ozzie the Walrus now lol)
Ozzie flips Hedwig
It doesn't really make sense to me but that's what's been happening.
Here's a video I just took now: Ozzie and Hedwig had been sleeping on the house together but moved as soon as they saw me coming :roll: :lol: They've been together like this since 5:30PM
(I still can't get embedding the videos to work so here's the link)
http://s971.photobucket.com/user/queenofenglund/media/video-2013-09-12-19-56-08_zpsca62ccee.mp4.html
Also, the hierarchy seems to be:
Hedwig flips Calloway
Calloway flips Ozzie (he was kind of renamed btw: he's Ozzie the Walrus now lol)
Ozzie flips Hedwig
It doesn't really make sense to me but that's what's been happening.
Here's a video I just took now: Ozzie and Hedwig had been sleeping on the house together but moved as soon as they saw me coming :roll: :lol: They've been together like this since 5:30PM
(I still can't get embedding the videos to work so here's the link)
http://s971.photobucket.com/user/queenofenglund/media/video-2013-09-12-19-56-08_zpsca62ccee.mp4.html
Joanne
Well-Known Member
Looks pretty mellow! Just take the easy intro and run with it before the gods change their minds. LOL
Bamboo
Well-Known Member
lol! So, do you think it would be pushing it to vinegar down the main cage tomorrow morning and see how it goes from there? That's what I'm feeling like doing (especially since I have tomorrow off) but I also work pretty much all day Saturday (10-6 but with travel time I'd leave around 9AM and get home probably 7:30) an I'll likely have the same thing Sunday. I'd prefer not to leave them so long with out supervision so soon but maybe that's just me being paranoid again...but at the same time, 1 week for adult male intros? I don't want to get carried away and push my luck. To be totally honest, I was expecting at least a month with neuters. Now I find myself considering the final step 8 days after they meet and they're all intact...
I don't even know anymore. So far, if things go as planned, this will be the second fastest intro I've done ever. The fastest being the only time I ever intro'd girls and they were together within, I think it was 3 or 4 days lol
Edit: or maybe should I vinegar everything now, put them together in the main cage now and have tonight be the first night together then keep an eye on them tomorrow, when I'm off?
I don't even know anymore. So far, if things go as planned, this will be the second fastest intro I've done ever. The fastest being the only time I ever intro'd girls and they were together within, I think it was 3 or 4 days lol
Edit: or maybe should I vinegar everything now, put them together in the main cage now and have tonight be the first night together then keep an eye on them tomorrow, when I'm off?
Joanne
Well-Known Member
I would err on the side of caution and be home to supervise for the first little while. Good luck!
Bamboo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. Pushing it too far to fast. However, I did do a full clean of the cage last night swapped out everything and put them together. There wasn't any fighting and I checked everyone thins morning for marks and they were all clear.
As of now, they've been together for almost 30 hours (they went in the bin together yesterday at noon) and they've been together in the main cage for almost 19 hours without incident (I put them all in together around 11:30 last night)
I think I'm going to try some out time with them now.
Some out-time pics:
As of now, they've been together for almost 30 hours (they went in the bin together yesterday at noon) and they've been together in the main cage for almost 19 hours without incident (I put them all in together around 11:30 last night)
I think I'm going to try some out time with them now.
Some out-time pics:
Bamboo
Well-Known Member
It's only been 3 days days since they've been together and they're already inseparable. I'm really glad this went as smoothly as it did because it's actually even more obvious that Ozzie was desperate for friends. When seen side by side against Hedwig and Calloway, his nervousness is so much more apparent. For example, the smallest things completely freak him, such as sudden movements or different noises (not even loud noises, just different. I had them out the other day and the windows were open. My apartment is over a bunch of parking spaces and somebody closed their car door. I'm on the 4th floor and he still panicked!)
However, now that he's with the boys, he's latching onto them. He's really following their lead and I can already see improvement. Today, I had them out on the couch for a couple of hours and when it was time for them to go back I approached them. I guess I went a little to fast for him. He automatically freaked out and started looking for cover (he likes making caves out of the blanket lol). Hedwig and Calloway got excited and instead began standing up and trying to climb up my arms (they know that when they go back after out time, they get their veggies and noodles so going home is always a positive experience lol) Once he realized what they were doing, Ozzie almost immediately began mimicking their behaviour. I doubt he's learned the veggie routine by now, so I think he was just following their lead.
At this rate, I feel he may be free from his nervousness before anticipated. I'm so happy for him! He deserves a happy, stress free life in the company of his new brothers : )
However, now that he's with the boys, he's latching onto them. He's really following their lead and I can already see improvement. Today, I had them out on the couch for a couple of hours and when it was time for them to go back I approached them. I guess I went a little to fast for him. He automatically freaked out and started looking for cover (he likes making caves out of the blanket lol). Hedwig and Calloway got excited and instead began standing up and trying to climb up my arms (they know that when they go back after out time, they get their veggies and noodles so going home is always a positive experience lol) Once he realized what they were doing, Ozzie almost immediately began mimicking their behaviour. I doubt he's learned the veggie routine by now, so I think he was just following their lead.
At this rate, I feel he may be free from his nervousness before anticipated. I'm so happy for him! He deserves a happy, stress free life in the company of his new brothers : )
Joanne
Well-Known Member
Awww, it's so great to hear that Ozzie is following your boys' lead. He'll be happy and relaxed in no time! Perhaps that's why the intros went so easily - he was so unsure of himself that he let them take the lead right from the beginning. Yay little man!
Bamboo
Well-Known Member
Baby Baal is here! : )
His story started here: http://www.jorats.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=35196&sid=947260dfe11b64fd2e92146a7fb9fc09
He got here just after 6PM after almost 5 hours of travelling. Even after this relatively short time and through the walls of a Kritter Keeper, he managed to make an impression on his ride. I found this guy through kijiji rideshare and, after talking to a couple people, I opted to go with this guy because I really liked his attitude. He was extremely friendly and had a million questions about rats when he dropped him off. He said was talking to him the whole way so he wouldn't be too scared from the trip.
Baby Baal (pronounced "Bail") was quite overwhelmed but no worse for wear from the trip. He's such a sweetheart! I suck at ageing rats but I figure 2-3 months-ish? He's got a nice, shiny coat and he's got a berky belly!! *internally squealing* (Irrelevant sidenote: It's been ages since I've had a berky and, while I don't really care about 'patterns' or colours, berkshires are a big weakness of mine lol) He's nervous but it's obvious that he's been well handled at some point. His previous owner, despite how they came to be together, obviously cared about him. He made sure I wanted him as a pet. He told me that he had named him Baal. I told him I would keep the name and offered to send him picture updates. He said he would like that.
As soon as he got here, I put him in his new cage for a couple hours to rest and recover. He ate a bunch of blocks and I gave him some veggies. He picked at them a little but didn't eat much of them. He's been drinking a lot of water too, which is good. I took him out on the futon for about 15 minutes. I didn't want to keep him out too long, since he's had a big day. I put him back and he ate some more blocks and drank some more water. As soon as he was done, he grabbed his new blankie and curled up in the corner and went to sleep. He has a house but he doesn't seem to like it for some reason.
Here's a quick video of his first, brief out-time:
And here's the world's crappiest picture. I took it quickly because I didn't want to disturb his sleep.
Also, when it rains it pours: There's a woman in my neighbourhood who has 4 male rats that she can't keep. Apparently somebody gave her my email and she asked me if I could take them. She says she can't keep them but she wants them to be somewhere safe and the only people who say they can take them, want them for food. She's quite desperate, so what could I say? I'm picking them up tomorrow morning.
His story started here: http://www.jorats.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=35196&sid=947260dfe11b64fd2e92146a7fb9fc09
He got here just after 6PM after almost 5 hours of travelling. Even after this relatively short time and through the walls of a Kritter Keeper, he managed to make an impression on his ride. I found this guy through kijiji rideshare and, after talking to a couple people, I opted to go with this guy because I really liked his attitude. He was extremely friendly and had a million questions about rats when he dropped him off. He said was talking to him the whole way so he wouldn't be too scared from the trip.
Baby Baal (pronounced "Bail") was quite overwhelmed but no worse for wear from the trip. He's such a sweetheart! I suck at ageing rats but I figure 2-3 months-ish? He's got a nice, shiny coat and he's got a berky belly!! *internally squealing* (Irrelevant sidenote: It's been ages since I've had a berky and, while I don't really care about 'patterns' or colours, berkshires are a big weakness of mine lol) He's nervous but it's obvious that he's been well handled at some point. His previous owner, despite how they came to be together, obviously cared about him. He made sure I wanted him as a pet. He told me that he had named him Baal. I told him I would keep the name and offered to send him picture updates. He said he would like that.
As soon as he got here, I put him in his new cage for a couple hours to rest and recover. He ate a bunch of blocks and I gave him some veggies. He picked at them a little but didn't eat much of them. He's been drinking a lot of water too, which is good. I took him out on the futon for about 15 minutes. I didn't want to keep him out too long, since he's had a big day. I put him back and he ate some more blocks and drank some more water. As soon as he was done, he grabbed his new blankie and curled up in the corner and went to sleep. He has a house but he doesn't seem to like it for some reason.
Here's a quick video of his first, brief out-time:
And here's the world's crappiest picture. I took it quickly because I didn't want to disturb his sleep.
Also, when it rains it pours: There's a woman in my neighbourhood who has 4 male rats that she can't keep. Apparently somebody gave her my email and she asked me if I could take them. She says she can't keep them but she wants them to be somewhere safe and the only people who say they can take them, want them for food. She's quite desperate, so what could I say? I'm picking them up tomorrow morning.
RattusNorvegicus
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2011
- Messages
- 905
I am so happy that you can be there to save the ratties in need!
dspch911
Senior Member
Bamboo said:
Well, Hello there! :heart: :heart:
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Awww what a lucky little fellow...I love the name Baal :heart:
He's beautiful and he's going to grow up to be a lovely manrat
I would say he's about 10 weeks...
Can't wait to meet the other newbies later on
He's beautiful and he's going to grow up to be a lovely manrat
I would say he's about 10 weeks... Can't wait to meet the other newbies later on
mamarat
Well-Known Member
I love his name. Kudos for giving them all a second chance.
Bamboo
Well-Known Member
They're heeeeere
They got here just after noon. They came with 2 cages. The main cage and a smaller 'time-out' cage. She says they fight sometimes so she has to separate them. I'm sure once there's some things in there, fighting won't be an issue lol. They only had a few small toys, 2 dishes and an igloo that none of them can fit in. They were also on pine I dumped that right away and got them some carefresh. I also took the igloo, washed it and gave it to Baal, since he can actually fit in it lol. I can't find my other big hut right now, so they have one of those bins from dollerama and the half cereal box lol. I'm also cutting some fleece for the shelves as we speak and getting them a couple hammocks
They're all hooded dumbos. 2 agouti, a blue and a very licky black. They're all super friendly. My sister wanted to help name them lol. The blue is Gandalf, the agouti the headspot is Pippin, the black is Ty and the agouti with no headspot is Pavel.
They're all big, chunky boys. Gandalf is definitely the shyest but once you pick him up he calms right down. Pippin and Pavel are so curious and friendly and Ty is so, so licky. Calloway is going to have some competition for Lickiest Rat Ever lol.
So, we're pretty full up here. The single FN isn't gonna cut it anymore lol. I ordered a double CN on Friday and I'm hoping it'll be here by the end of the week. In the meantime, I think I'm going to start intros tomorrow and hopefully these will go smoothly as last time lol.
Would it be best to give a Baal a few more days before starting intros with him? He's eating and drinking well but he still seems really tired. I think I might go get him some pediatric electrolyes just to be safe.
They got here just after noon. They came with 2 cages. The main cage and a smaller 'time-out' cage. She says they fight sometimes so she has to separate them. I'm sure once there's some things in there, fighting won't be an issue lol. They only had a few small toys, 2 dishes and an igloo that none of them can fit in. They were also on pine
I dumped that right away and got them some carefresh. I also took the igloo, washed it and gave it to Baal, since he can actually fit in it lol. I can't find my other big hut right now, so they have one of those bins from dollerama and the half cereal box lol. I'm also cutting some fleece for the shelves as we speak and getting them a couple hammocks They're all hooded dumbos. 2 agouti, a blue and a very licky black. They're all super friendly. My sister wanted to help name them lol. The blue is Gandalf, the agouti the headspot is Pippin, the black is Ty and the agouti with no headspot is Pavel.
They're all big, chunky boys. Gandalf is definitely the shyest but once you pick him up he calms right down. Pippin and Pavel are so curious and friendly and Ty is so, so licky. Calloway is going to have some competition for Lickiest Rat Ever lol.
So, we're pretty full up here. The single FN isn't gonna cut it anymore lol. I ordered a double CN on Friday and I'm hoping it'll be here by the end of the week. In the meantime, I think I'm going to start intros tomorrow and hopefully these will go smoothly as last time lol.
Would it be best to give a Baal a few more days before starting intros with him? He's eating and drinking well but he still seems really tired. I think I might go get him some pediatric electrolyes just to be safe.
