Agouti trio - in need of some socialization ideas!!

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mamarat2

mamarat2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,385
Location
Gaithersburg, Maryland
Hiya all! Long time no see, I know I know!! I'm in need of some major ideas. Long story short, I recently took in a trio of agouti kids from someone local who was not able to work with them in any capacity and socialize them. They have pretty much only had a playtime every two weeks or so since December 09. Two bite and one though she does not bite if I corner her I can pet her. All are TERRIFIED of hands and being held, Shelagh my best word for these kids is feral though in truth they are not wild born. We have 2 girls and a boy, all spayed and neutered, brother and sisters.

I just got them yesterday. They are in a 695 Martins with lots of hidey spots so they feel comfortable and there is also a silent spinner in the cage. My first original goal was to get them out for a playtime today, though I realized last night that they are even terrified of the rustling noises the 10 rats next door make in the CN (that would be the resident herd) so hopefully just being in a room where there is ongoing "other rat" activity and people activity that will work towards desensitizing them to the normal noises of the household.

On to playtime issues which at this point is my main hurdle to cross, I need them out daily for playtimes as I know that will get me huge steps forward in them being used to me. Playtimes for these kids will be in the bathroom, it's ratproofed and nowhere to hide or get into where I can't reach. Can't take the whole 695 in there, beleive me pondered it; so I need a way to get them out into a carrier, box, clothe bag, etc to carry them 5 steps to bathroom. For only being 3 they are very pack oriented, my hand goes in and they scatter and reform as they run away. I have big cereal box in the cage to get them used to the idea of being in it in order to herd them all into the box and then pull it out with all of them in it for playtime, I'm not sure that is too feasilble just yet. Ideas?
 
How old are these wonder little kids? My only suggestion is get then with a towel and do the forced socialization. Since they are true bitters double layer of tee-shirt and heavy sweatshirt. Stuff them down your shirt, maybe one at a time and hope they don't chew through the clothing. Maybe just sit by the cage as much as possible and talk to them and have your hand inside so they can smell you (hopefully without biting).
 
When I first met them a week ago, I used a towel to wrap them up in and pick them up or rather tried too, they slithered right out. And the one time I did get one of them into my grasp, Blue, he flew out of my hands (still not sure how that happened) and hit the floor and it took us an hour and half to catch him. Was hoping now that they are here they would calm some but then it's only been 12 hours....and this is not what I consider one of my ordinary behavioral groups. :gaah:

The other time we got Tippy out while at the former owner's home we took her in the bathroom and she would come up and bite toes. That solution is covered, I wear soft bottom shoes that have leather to protect my toes.

As for the biting I can put my hand/arm (no fingers) in the cage and they all run, Tippy the boldest will stand her ground to pretty much protect the other two is what I am getting out of this and if skin gets close the mouth starts opening and I can vaguely catched the high pitched scream at me. If cornered Blue & Tippy will bite, so no going into a double layered tshirt until we are better oriented though I understand the idea. I think I may just have to go way back to basics and start over with these guys, the sitting next to the cage and talking to them to get them even used to being around a person let alone being touched by one. They were born in Sept 09, so 8 months old about right now.
 
Wow you really do have your work cut out for you. Just talking to them will help. I know Shelagh will have more ideals on this and Jo also.
 
Poor ratties ...

I would let them get used to the new cage, noises, smells, etc for awhile. Perhaps put a shirt or something with your scent on it into the cage.
The cage is large enough so I wouldn't bother with play time as I imagine it will just be one more frightening experience and they will just run and hide. Instead, lots of play activities in the cage for now. They may never like to be picked up or petted but hopefully they will soon stop being terrified.

They need to get used to you, you can sit near their cage for hours talking to them etc. (ie cage near your desk etc)
For socialization you could be putting tasty food in the cage, working toward them taking it from your hand, licking food off a spoon and then eventually licking it off your finger.

And of course, forced socialization when you put each on you between two shirts for long periods of time.

Story of the socialization of a terrified rat: http://ratfanclub.org/trust.html
 
Not giving rats daily playtime is beyond my mental capacity, they get a playtime daily period.

I decided it was time that I stepped up to the plate and went back to my original plan of the box. I blocked the ramp from the main level of the 695 as they were all up on the top level and put some of their snuggle rags in the giant cereal box, then herded them into the box, then a soft towel to block the entrance. Out the box came out of the cage with its' precious contents and intro the bathroom we went. They had a solid 40 minute playtime in the bathroom. If I sat super relaxed and quietly they came out to run around the bathroom and even ran over and up onto me a few times. I was able to "hold" Blue and Violet wrapped up in a towel, Tippy is going to be the hard nut to crack - no hands near her yet. After the holding sessions with Blue & Violet, Blue even climbed me and sat on my shoulder, I was amazed. So it seems the box idea will work for the moment!

Thanks for the link SQ, with holding their food is my mind is not a nice way to deal with a situation where I already have terrified rats. I think I will stick with the forced socialization on my end. They do willing take treats if it's something I can hand to them from a distance.
 
Any chance you can give these guys buddies. If you have very laid back rats, they will teach them to trust you and not be so fearful of their world.
So it's either you give them quiet time and no out time for a while but all that might do is get them to become too cozy in their world and not accept the outside world so I agree with daily out time no matter what. That will get them on a routine and that's important at this point. Everything should be routine for them so say if they get bananas in the morning they should always be able to expect that banana, a cheerio in the afternoon keep that up so they know it's coming and to expect it, that's how they will get comfortable. The out time should be at the same time every day if that's possible, with the same toys and nummies too. It might take a few months but I'm going to bet that with time you'll have them putty in your hands.
 
I agree with you re with holding food. Not something I would do either. But she does mention introing another rat as jorats, etc.
As for playtime, I ment playtime in the cage until they were less frightened.
Glad that I was wrong and they are brave enough to explore and run around during playtime in the bathroom.
Great that they would run across you, etc.
Interesting about establishing a routine Jorats. It makes a lot of sense.
 
That's how I would take my Wildthings out of their cage, put treats in a hidey house (for them it was a fish) and they would all 3 go in and I would take them out of the cage. After a while they even learned to go back to the cage on their own when I would say "go home". Good luck with your sweeties.
 
They look like Halfies to me Jen. They act like halfies too. :( If you can get them in the box and into the bathroom with you, its PERFECT!! I used a bonding sack to transport my original little crew. Being frightened is much better than aggressive like my present older half-wilds..they cannot be touched. I have some amazing wounds and scars, because they will lunge out of wherever they are and bite me no reservations.

If you are able to get them out and let them get used to you over time in the bathroom, you could end up with some almost-handleable rats.
 
I'm not really familiar with Halfies, having never encountered any before, but I don't think these guys are...? I only say this because I have two of their sisters and both are very handle-able. One takes being picked up with good grace and the other's a pain about it, but both are fine. The influence of the two boys I adopted from Small Angels when they were younger really helped.

How would you be able to tell if a rat's half-wild if you don't know its heritage? I'm honestly curious - I know that they have the "right" coloration as agouti berks. Their entire litter of twelve looked exactly like that. When they were younger, I wondered it myself. My girls have mellowed a bit with age, though.

31670_535570770154_43302396_31785414_6607840_n.jpg
 
Unfortunately, we never got to see mom. These guys came in as a litter of five-week-old rats surrendered by a local Petsmart to our animal control facility. When I called someone at the store to find out more about them, they said that the babies were dumped at the store with mom about three weeks ago. When they described how they looked at the time, combined with the size of the babies, and after doing some research on early rat development, they were very close to two weeks when they got there. We have no idea what happened to mom.

I took home the girls the day after they arrived at the shelter, so pretty much exactly five weeks. They were all spayed and neutered a week later and sent home with adopters as terrified little babies who'd been very minimally socialized by store employees when they were small.
 
They look like normal agouti's to me. Ears, face, tail, and body all look like domestic. The body language is seemingly also the same, just ultra scared rat body language. I've never seen halfies in person before myself.
 
I think you definitely have half-wilds on your hands. Jen, yours obviously haven't been socialized much before they came to you. Socialized halfies can be held, and are still nervous but much more like domestics and usually will not bite, unsocialized halfies are fear aggressive and take insane amounts of work once they are adults.

Teya the the girl (bowl) was most fearful and would wriggle out of your hands if she could.

Wildthingspile.jpg


Same babies with their mom who was caught in someone's garden after being dumped.
smRennieandbabies.jpg


The woman was not rat-savy and didn't handle the babies at all for 4 weeks.

Here they are after Jo got them home...at 4 weeks
Renlingsat4weeks.jpg


Typical response of half-wild babies
bothbabyboys.jpg


I have been through 5 groups of half-wilds, and no matter what colour mama is, babies are ALL agouti. if they have been handled, they will be a lot like domestics but with a much stronger startle response. That's what the present crews of 3 litters are like. Inky's are the worst but she's also the worst mom for being a not-calming influence.
 

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