A question on if or how rats mourn cagemates.

[Jennw]

A friend of mine is dealing with a sad situation. One of her two rat boys has an aggressive tumour on his neck which cannot be fully remove due to the location (entwined in the jugular vein and carotid artery). The vet says he has days to weeks to live. She's wondering about his brother, and what she should do when he dies. She asked me this, and I said I'd post it here:

She asked: Do you show a rat the dead body of their bonded buddy when it dies? For bunnies they say you need to leave the dead bunny with its bonded mate for it to mourn it and then you take it away. Is it the same for rats or not?

I don't have an answer for her. I'm hoping you do.

 

[SQ]

I always show the dead body to my other rats so they will know what happened to their friend.
They will sniff the body for a few minutes and then I take it away.

Rats will grieve for their dead friends.
Giving the remaining rattie lots of attention will help both your friend and the remaining rattie as they grieve and comfort one another.

I am very sorry that this is happening.
I hope your friend is able to make the rattie comfortable and give him lots of love in the time he has left.

 

[jennifervb]

A friend of mine is dealing with a sad situation. One of her two rat boys has an aggressive tumour on his neck which cannot be fully remove due to the location (entwined in the jugular vein and carotid artery). The vet says he has days to weeks to live. She's wondering about his brother, and what she should do when he dies. She asked me this, and I said I'd post it here:

She asked: Do you show a rat the dead body of their bonded buddy when it dies? For bunnies they say you need to leave the dead bunny with its bonded mate for it to mourn it and then you take it away. Is it the same for rats or not?

I don't have an answer for her. I'm hoping you do.

Jennw,

It is critical to provide the body to the living rats so that they can make closure. The process generally takes between 20-30 minutes. When my little Jerry died, I put his body in the cage for Ben to make closure with. He spent 20 minutes examining Jerry, going out of the cage, coming back in and examining him again.

When Ben was done, he went outside the cage and stuck his nose through the bars to look at Jerry. He would not go back in the cage until Jerry's body had been removed.

Make sure that your friend's rat is not suffering. The tumor sounds like it is in a really bad place and it is important that the little man not suffocate or suffer any pain. Did the vet say anything about euthanasia? If the rat is not suffering, then it is ok to let him die at home, in the comfort of family and loved ones. But if he is suffering, your friend may want to consider having him put to sleep. :rose:

If he does need to be euthanized, then your friend needs to take the body home with her and give the other rat the chance to say goodbye. Rats are extremely intelligent animals. They remember whether or not it was an owner who took a buddy away and then never brought him back! My vet was clear on the necessity of taking Jerry's body home so that Ben would not view me as "questionable".

My vet put Jerry into a white box and once Ben had made closure, I put the box in the freezer until I could take Jerry back to the vet for cremation.

Give as much comfort to your friend as possible. This is a bad time for her. :tearful:

I hope this information helps. :cuddle:

 

[Jennw]

Make sure that your friend's rat is not suffering. The tumor sounds like it is in a really bad place and it is important that the little man not suffocate or suffer any pain. Did the vet say anything about euthanasia? If the rat is not suffering, then it is ok to let him die at home, in the comfort of family and loved ones. But if he is suffering, your friend may want to consider having him put to sleep. :rose:

We don't believe he is suffering. He's not acting like it, anyway.
She took him to the vet on Monday with a suspected abscess for the vet to lance. Then they found the tumour. They've taken out at much as possible, but couldn't remove it all, as I said above. He's home now, and they will watch him and if he seems to be suffering, they'll have him PTS. He is VERY well-cared for. I saw him Monday to take some pictures, and he gobbled up lots of peas and blueberries, and came over to check out the camera and me. He's a squishy old guy with a fantastic disposition, and I know his people are looking out for his best interests.

 

[jorats]

Having some rats pts at the vets, we aren't always able to show the dead rat to the buddies. I have not found any change in their behavior either when they see the body or not. I really don't think it's crucial for the rats to see the dead body. I think it's a personal choice actually.
Once I did show the body and the rats totally ignored it, even trampling over the body, looking to come out of the cage.
Also, don't forget, to some rats, they must dispose of the body so they may start "working" on it.

 

[lilspaz68]

I have tried both ways myself...I found overall that the rats that showed grief were more depressed after seeing the body. I personally think that our rats are aware when a cagemate or even a rat in another cage is leaving...I find them to be very spiritual beings and in tune with each other...

I generally do not show the body after the euthanasia. I also believe its a pesonal choice.

 

[user 78]

I agree that it's definitely a personal choice.

I've had two deaths, one at home and the other was pts at the vet. Tully was desperately ill, and I was unable to get her into the vet in time, so her cagemates at the time knew she was passing. Mac and Penn cuddled with Tully until shortly before the end, at which point they both avoided her. Mac was taken in to be pts, but I was able to bring her body back. I tried showing her to Penn, her littermate and cagemate, and was very disappointed with Penn's reaction. She almost immediately tried to "take care" of the body. Since then, I've made the decision to no longer show the bodies. It's no longer their beloved cagemate and friend, but a shell, and they all seem to know long before I do that they're going for good. I think they take care of their good byes long before we even know it's going to happen.

 

[RatsForever]

I find this an interesting topic actually, because I've always wondered if animals, including rats mourn (however, one defines it). I've only had one rat who I thought showed signs of mourning. When Fiona died, her sister Bijoux hid in a box for a few days only coming out to eat and drink. I actually became concerned and brought Bijoux to the vet but nothing was wrong with her. My friends thought I had lost my mind when I believed Bijoux was in grief. They thought I was just anthropomorphizing.

 

[SQ]

Rats absolutely morn ..... Cindy especially had a difficult time after Caleb died.
Only two of my deceased rats have not been humanely pts by the vet.
I always let the remaining rats sniff the dead body so they know that their friend died ...

 

[Dewi]

My rats ignore the body. I wonder if I'm not leaving it in there for long enough as I only show them the body for 5 minutes or so. I do find that as the group size dwindles the remaining rats do miss their deceased cage mates but they perk up when introduced to more rats. Fortunately I've not had any rats (or cats for that matter) grieve intensely for their friend, that would be too heartbreaking.

 

[Rodentist]

MY rat Hadrian, also had a tumor on his neck that could not be removed...they did not wake him up from surgery when they discovered the extent of the tumor.

His cage mate, Trajan, kept looking for him, agitated in the cage, and searching every corner during free range time. Trajan, at this point, was a larger (okay, very large) older boy at this time, and wasn't into exploring unless he had a good reason. This went on for two days. I had Hadrian in my freezer, and I thawed him out. I showed Trajan the body, he sniffed it, and backed off, he seemed upset, but the endless search and rescue missions stopped. It was breaking my heart to see him looking for his friend.

I believe that they understand death, that their friend is gone, and only a shell left behind. I also think that they are more disturbed when a sick friend just goes missing. Ever since, I make sure the colony sees....just so they know...

Sometimes they seem to care very much, sometimes they don't. I just make sure they have the information.

 

[Debbie]

Rats most definitely mourn. :sad3:

For us, we always present the body to their cagemates. Not only does is provide closure, it doesn't leave their friends guessing what happened to them. Otherwise, some will look for their friend for quite a while and become more depressed if they don't know. I know that sounds strange or unbelievable...but I've seen it first hand. Of course it's depressing for them to see that their friend is gone.....but I personally think it at least let's them know and doesn't leave them wondering. I have a rat friend who simply cannot deal with seeing her rattie gone...so she's never brought them home. Her other rats mope and look for their friend for weeks before they start to act normal. Mine are very quiet and mourn for about 3 days...then start to act normally again.

I do have rats that will sniff the body and then go about their business. But I've also had rats that drape themselves across, or lay beside the body and not want to leave. :sad3:

I recenly lost a momma rattie. Her daughter mourned for over a week. I know she was mouring, because she's always the first to the cage, loves her treats and always wants to come out. I barely saw her for that whole week. I had to actually reach in and bring her out of the house for play time, and even then she just hung out in an igloo. :sad3:

 

[lilspaz68]

Lottie is still angry at losing Amelia the only rat she could stand/cared for. Months later she is not as angry and is a bit more loving...she's stopped the sharp nips, and has a softer expression on her face, but like a previous pearl merle, she becomes a mean ol' dunny brush with other rats and then there's bloodshed during the 1st minute of neutral intro's :sad3:

Others get quiet, their eyes dull, and they take awhile to get over their losses.

I wish your friend much luck in this sad situation, and hopefully, just like some other rats, he beats the vet's diagnosis by many months....it happens! :nod: