3 girls with heart problems - not doing well

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SQ

SQ

Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
17,208
Location
central New Brunswick Canada
Four of Debbie's sisters ... Dandy, Leona Francis, Elizabeth, and Robin have heart problems. :sad3:
Dandy and Leona's hearts are enlarged, poor little Dandy's heart is huge :sad3:

Starting them on heart meds today ...
Have been treating them with various combos of antibiotics for respir. unsucessfully.
So far that is 5 girls out of this litter ....
 
Sounds like a litter or better two litter we had in rescue...

Libby and Mark had two back to back litters before we got them in and a lot of the babies from the two litters have/had heart problems.....

Quite a few already passed away but some are still going strong and they'll soon turn 2.... I hope the heart meds will help the girls!
 
GAH!!! I wish there was a way of showing people who get any old rats and breed them, without knowing any genetic's, how awful this is and its all their fault!
 
Yes, that litter was bred for feeding to a snake. The parents were probably closely related. I am crossing my fingers that the boys in that litter will continue to be healthy. They are 20 months old, and so far so good. Four of them live in Toronto. My two boys have only recently had any respiratory issues, and they responded to abs.

But the girls in that litter have had a rough time. Their mama died very young.
 
Oh I'm so sorry. I do hope the heart meds can offer them some relief.

We have 10 ratties on heart meds here and all are doing rather well. We have two girls from the litters Littledevils mentioned above. I never thought they'd make it to 2 years old...but both girls are still going strong. They have been on heart meds since they were around 5 months old.

Fingers crossed for your girls and hope they start feeling better soon.
 
Dandy's breathing is not improving ... it is bad ...
Robin's breathing is about as bad ...
Leona's breathing is very bad too ...

these 3 are taking turns as to whom is the worst off ... :sad3: :sad3: :sad3:
.... most of the time Dandy sems to be in the worst shape .... and her physical condition (heart and lungs) as seen in the xray is much much worse then her sisters ....

Elizabeth is the only onethat seems to be responding to the meds and holding her own ...
 
What meds are they currently on?

Besides lasix and enalapril my guy Fatsy Pancake was also on Doxy/Baytril for a bit and when that didn't work out, the vet suggested to also add Theophyline and the combination of the 5 meds did the trick when he was in really bad condition.

Currently he is only on Lasix/Enalapril and has been for almost a year now.
 
We have a couple of boys that although they are on lasix, enalapril and abs....they'll start to decline every so often. That's when we start nebulizer treatments and that always helps. Same principle as littledevils just mentioned. Instead, we use Aminopholline as the brochialdialator via the nebulizer (Theopholline being the oral version), along with a med to help break up the mucus in their lungs.
 
Dandy had to be pts on April 24.

Leona Francis has an enlarged heart so she is on digixon as well as atenolol (beta-blocker), benazepril (ACE inhibitor), & lasix. She is also on baytril.

Robin had 2 xrays and the vet wasn't sure why he couldn't see her heart in either.
She is on atenolol (beta-blocker), benazepril (ACE inhibitor), & lasix. She is also on baytril and a small amount of prednisone. She isn't doing well ... losing weight and lungs very conjested.

Elizabeth did not have an enlarged heart so she is on atenolol (beta-blocker), benazepril (ACE inhibitor), baytril & lasix.

Esther May (another sister) is on antibiotics and hoping they help ... hoping it isn't her heart too.

None of the girls is doing as well as they should be ... will phone the vet tomorrow and ask for a bronchodialator (like Theopholline).
Since they have heart conditions I would be afraid to nebulize as it can make heart conditions worse.

Jorats, my vet spoke with yours in April and he mentioned to me that heart conditions in your area seem to have an underlying cause such as lung problems ....
The heart problems we are seeing down here in maritime rats are the problem, with no underlying cause. The heart problems then cause problems with breathing etc.

Debbie, what med do you use to break up the mucus?

Anyone have any other suggestions?
 
SQ said:
Jorats, my vet spoke with yours in April and he mentioned to me that heart conditions in your area seem to have an underlying cause such as lung problems ....
The heart problems we are seeing down here in maritime rats are the problem, with no underlying cause. The heart problems then cause problems with breathing etc.
Click to expand...

Yes...well I don't agree with my vet on this issue. She refuses to treat heart problem in rats which leaves us with nothing to do when there really is a heart problem. I'm glad she had a talk with your vet, maybe it might make her rethink this issue.
 
I am so sorry! This is so sad and frustrating :sad3:

Jo, sorry to hear that your vet is stubborn. What is her problem? I mean, what does she have to lose? All we can do is try different kinds of meds and obviously, in a lot of cases, the heart meds do work!
 
Regardless of the origin of the heart problem, a struggling heart needs meds for relief. They do this with people, where it is acknowledged that lots of people with congestive heart failure acquired it as a secondary condition.

SQ, so sorry to hear that Robin is declining. I am concerned about her two brothers, who have resp issues. I'll be taking them into the vet asap. They are currently lively, but that is the energy of youth.

The bronchodilator that I have had prescribed is Ventipulmin. Really helps.
 
Godmother, one of their brothers in the GTA has also been struggling with respir issues for some time. He is being treated for it but is declining.
Hopefully they will try treating him for a heart condition because the antibiotics aren't solving the problem (re Rat Health Care book) and because of the family history of heart disease ...

Jorats too bad you can't convince your vet to try treating heart problems ... or find another vet to take rats with heart problems to ...
 
SQ said:
Debbie, what med do you use to break up the mucus?
Click to expand...

We use Acetylsystein in the nebulizer to break up the mucus.

I'm so sorry about Dandy, and that the others aren't doing well still.

What's the dose on the lasix? You might be able to go a bit higher, if you can be sure they are still getting enough water, or that you might be able to get them fluids if you see dehydration.

Our Tim was in pretty ugly shape when we adopted him from our local Humane Society...we got him on meds right away. Over the next few months, he continued to decline and we got to where we had to really increase the lasix. It would help...but his heart was very enlarged too. We thought for sure he only had a few days left, but the neb treatments and meds helped pull him through for another 6 weeks after that. In the end, he got VERY thin, and started having gasping episodes. He grew very tired and we finally had to let him go. :sad3:

Jo, so sorry to hear about your vet not wanting to address heart issues. I really think it's so hard for many vets to even detect heart problems. But in my experience, if it's a chronic respiratory problem (which alone can also cause heart issues and visa versa) that abs can't help...there's almost certainly a heart issue involved. I think of all the rats I lost to "chronic respiratory problems"...in the old days, when I have so many doing well on heart meds now (I have 9 of my 25 on heart meds! My vet is a little too good at detecting issues :doh: ). Hang in there...hopefully your vet will come around.
:hugs:
 
I think it has to do with all the postmortems she's done on our rats. Only 2 had CHF. So she strongly believes that heart issues don't really happen in rats. I've talked to her several times about it. She really hates treating something without knowing for real if it's indeed the heart. She's mentioned getting an ultrasound of the heart done but at $600 a pop... that's a tad unreasonable.
So far though, we've really been lucky and no real heart issues yet.
Unfortunately, there is not any other vet here that will see rats.
 
Oh that's so sad, because my vet says that heart issues is one of the most common illnesses in rats. :sad3: Of course, we do not treat unless there is an abnormality of the heart rythym...so in that case you do know it's something wrong with the heart, and of course, wouldn't know post mortem. :sad3:

It's amazing how our vets differ so much in opinions (Steroids is a big either you do or don't med where vets often differ drastically). But I think that's where experience rat folks can work with our vets to help educate them as much as they do us. Unfortunately, and forunately, I have both vets at my clinic. That's why one is my day to day vet who works with me and knows I have actual rat experience vs what they learned in school and books, and the other.....well, he's an excellent surgeon, but goes by the book and never diverts on everything else.

Sorry, I pirated the thread....back to those dear little ones...and I sure hope they do start to feel better soon.
 

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