Popper 11/18 - Vet Update

We realized Popper had gotten sick too a couple days ago when he was out for play time and we heard audible, what we thought were breath sounds since he was squeaky/wheezy and just figured another URI. We immediately started him on the same round of antibiotics the others are on and I made an appointment for the bf to take him into the vet today. He showed no progress over the last couple days even though the others did. He is in x-ray now, she thinks its cardiac and wants to see the size of his heart. Oh my poor baby ... :sad3:

Remind my brain dead self which one popper is? I was thinking throttle but I know he is the black hooded boy.

So sorry to know that you have another sick ratty. It's very hard when you are worried about a few of the. At once.

The pew boy! their dad had a really heard time with being neutered, he was very difficult to wake up. Their sister Willow had that heart problem recently. Heart meds can work wonders for him if it is. You should be able to text with lasix, if it helps them it is usually the heart, and enalapril is very cheap for a lot of pills for them.

Oh dear. I'm sorry another of your little ones isn't doing well. Hopefully, if it is heart, he can thrive on meds. From what I've seen from other shackers, they can do wonders for a rat with heart issues.
:hugs:

Yes, he is the PEW brother of Axe and Throttle. Update from the bf, he has arthritis in his back legs above the knees and is a little over weight at 752g - maybe a little, but he is pretty solid like Throttle. Anyway, its not the heart :joy: , but its not clearly diagnosed either. She said the x-ray didn't show things as brightly as she wanted them too so this is what we have so far - possible asthma/copd, start of pneumonia, enlarged lymph nodes, or of course, my thought is lung abscesses - or whatever you guys are always talking about that are NOT good!!! His heart is not enlarged and its not chf. We're suppose to try a steamy bathroom and he's coming home with four medications - I think baytril/doxy/benedryl and I'm not sure of the other. He will go back next Thursday to see if anything improves. :gaah: :gaah: I'm going to have to get a credit extension on my care credit card or alter my own wedding dress - maybe I can teach the fuzz butts to sew :laugh4:

Fingers and paws crossed for some good results. Glad it's not CHF

Sending healing vibes. The worse is not knowing what it is.

Now she is thinking Axe might have whatever Popper has since he isn't responding as well to the baytril/doxy as the other boys.... :gaah: My poor babies.... we all need a break anic:

I swear....more rats= harder to treat resp. problems. It's always the same with me too....everyone has them...nobody but the couple lucky ones respond. It's a battle until the end.
I hope you can find something that works.

:gaah: Why can't it be something simple when the bf takes them to the vet!!! He tries his best, but of course its complicated and now I'm confused, for some reason he always get me half the information or give it to me in his version - which usually is some what different then what he is told.. Anyway, these are the actually medications Popper was given and I'm not sure why he is on some of these ...

Doxycycline 2 times a day for 2 weeks 0.03 ml (50 mg/ml) - I'm assuming this is in case it is a URI and not asthma
Diphenhydramine 2 times a day for 5-6 days 0.30 ml (2.5mg/ml suspension 15 ml) - Benedryl, I have no idea why he would be on this
Meloxicam 1 time per day 0.25 ml (1.5mg/ml 5ml) - Metacam??, again no idea, unless she think his arthritis hurts him, but he doesn't appear to be in any pain
Respicalm 2 times a day 0.10 ml (26 ml) - Don't really know what this is, but assume it has to be to help with his breathing

Any help here would be appreciated. I was nervious about the Diphenhydramine and Meloxicam at the same time and if they would make him drowsy so I only gave .20 of diphenhydramine. He gets rechecked in a week and I will be there. She wants to redo x-ray in a few months to see if there are any changes. He hasn't changed in behavior, eating habits, nothing - he just sounds horrible and squeaky when he breaths.

EDIT: I forgot he also has gas - lots of air in his bowels/intestines which she thinks is probably do to him taking in excess air while gasping for breath. Although I have never seen him gasping for breath.

I'm holding off on the Meloxicam since I don't know why he's getting it and I don't think he needs it. I did look on ratguide and it says not to use on an animal with history of asthma and since this is what they think he has I'm not going to give it to him. ANY OBJECTIONS?????

Meloxicam is an anti-inflammatory, so either it is for his arthritis or his breathing, I would not hesitate to give it to him. I'm not familiar with the Diphenhydramine and don't know whether there are counter-indications in giving them both together, but if it is like Benadryl, I too wonder why they are prescribed together. Can you give them a call and ask?

Regarding CHF, if it is in the early stages, I "think" it wouldn't necessarily show an enlarged heart on the x-ray. If you call them, ask them whether there was fluid in his lungs, that would be a better clue IMO, and then you can try Lasix to try and drain them. Jay has CHF (and I just had to PTS Hunter because of it), and on his original x-ray a month ago, we did find fluid in his lungs and a slightly abnormal heart shape, not quite an enlarged heart. Check-up x-ray this week showed that the meds had his heart shape improving, but his lungs kept filling up... so before brushing CHF off, I would ask them to make sure the heart shape is normal and that there is no fluid in his lungs...

I have found that baytril + doxy + azithromycin (10 mg/Ib, 2xs/day) works well
Lasix also if needed

With chf, heart may look ok in early stages as mentioned previously.
Not all heart problems cause the heart to become enlarged.
Not all heart problems can be detected on an xray.

re heart meds: if I try several combos of antibiotics and nothing works,
then I try benezapril or enalapril (0.25 mg/454.4 g twice a day)
if this helps then there is a heart problem and atenolol (1 mg/454.4g twice a day) is added to the benezapril or enalapril .
Lasix is also given as needed, starting at 1-2mg/Ib twice a day

If the heart meds are helping then my rat is xrayed.
If the heart is enlarged as seen on the xray, then digoxin is added .... but only if the heart is enlarged.

Those are questions I will certainly ask, we have a follow up appointment on Thursday. He seems to be doing better since I'm not hearing audible breathing as much. I'm definitely concerned about overmedicating him and/or making him a drugged out rattie. To the best of my knowledge benedryl is for allergies and if she is only giving him the meloxicam for pain - he's not in any pain he runs/climbs/jumps all over the place. I certainly would think more towards asthma or URI since both Popper and Axe (they are brothers) are showing the same symptoms. Although, hopefloats did tell me there sister had heart issues. My babies just cannot make it easy for me. I read some where that meloxicam can be bad for kidneys too if given too long or too much - don't know if that is true, but after what Finn when through with his kidney issues I certainly don't want to risk that either. I have read about Hunter and your CHF boys - sorry for what your going through too

He had a follow up appointment yesterday and was showing no improvement - actually this time she was able to hear his whistle breathing once she worked him up and his breathing became more labored. She wants to re do the xray in about 3-4 weeks we all decided against a cat scan at this time. This doesn't seem to be bothering him at all except after out time when he has more labored breathing - then he just lays down for awhile with his head over the edge of a shelf.
However we changed his medications
He will stay on these two until he finishes them:
Doxycycline 2 times a day for 2 weeks 0.03 ml (50 mg/ml) - I'm assuming this is in case it is a URI and not asthma
Respicalm 2 times a day 0.10 ml (26 ml) - Don't really know what this is, but assume it has to be to help with his breathing
We started another herbal heart stuff at 0.10 ml twice a day and lasix 0.10 ml twice a day to see if that helps. So we're at a watch and wait again!

wow.... I'm so sorry to see that you are *still* having to fight so hard for your little ones. What a very rough year for you all. I hope that you are able to get the answers you need shortly, or at least find the right combination of meds to keep your little ones comfortable. <3

violet976 said:

wow.... I'm so sorry to see that you are *still* having to fight so hard for your little ones. What a very rough year for you all. I hope that you are able to get the answers you need shortly, or at least find the right combination of meds to keep your little ones comfortable. <3

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With the new vet though, its not a fight - they are very easy to work with. I said "How about trying lasix?" and I got a "I'm fine with that." I told them the history of his sibling/father the hopefloats has they the noted it - she didn't blow me off like the other dr would of! So far I'm having a very pleasant experience and they love my babies! They take the time to show us things on them and what we should watch for, etc. So other than not pin pointing exactly what is wrong with the boys yet we're not stressing too much over it since we feel like were in good hands.

Oh that's wonderful. Having a good vet makes all the difference in the world. The one I had before would constantly underdose, and when I asked for the correct dosing of baytril/doxy for a rat that she said we had "tried all we could for", she refused stating that I was going to kill my rat. I told her you're basically telling me to take my rat home and wait for it to die, rather than even considering the idea that these other vets might be correct with their higher dosing and give it a try. Needless to say, that was my last visit there.

& it definitely makes a difference to have a vet willing to talk things out and explain things to you as well, rather than just throw treatments at you. I'm so glad you found a good one who is willing to work *with* you to care for your wee ones.

I'm glad you at least have an awesome vet this time around. Sending Popper good vibes.