ZGT - Nope! Systemic infection - RIP Bear

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crumbilina

crumbilina

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
3,512
Location
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Hey everyone,
I have an older rat, Bear, (2 years old, boy, neutered) who I am suspecting has a ZGT but I am not 100% sure. I have tried to get a picture of him, but the lump really doesn't show in pictures. I can feel a pea sized lump just above his jaw and below his ear. I have looked on rat guide and sure enough, the lump that I can feel is in the same place as the rats in the case studies. I followed the jaw line to see if it could be a tooth abscess but the jaw doesn't line up with it, and if you smell inside his mouth, there is no smell of infection. His ear has some dark brown discharge that I need to remove in the morning and evening and sometimes throughout the day. When I remove it, it starts harder and then becomes more liquid. This discharge doesn't smell when it is harder, but does smell of infection when it is liquid. There is also, at times, some fresh red blood - but not a whole lot just yet. He is on clavamox and baytril in case of infection.

My main worry right now is his behaviour. The mass is still quite small but he acts as though he is in a considerable amount of pain. Metacam is required once a day or else he just sits with his face in the corner of the cage and sleeps, all puffed up, looking miserable. He also cries when his cagemate, Merlin, comes up and touches him - he settles when Merlin settles though. Can ZGTs be this painful when they are small or could there be something else wrong? Can they grow inward and not really show? He also has a very squinty eye on the same side that looks rather dry at times. I have administered normal eye drops to moisten the eye which has helped him, but the eye remains squinty.

I'm just not really sure what to expect with this. Its my first time encountering it. I am going to make him a vet appointment for as soon as I possibly can, but going to the vet with information will be helpful. To those who have dealt with one before, do the symptoms sound correct? Can it progress without opening externally?

ETA: I have a vet appointment today at 2, I'll keep everyone updated, especially for future reference!
 
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Well wishes to your boy hope its not ZGT. My Throttle has a jaw abscess that keeps reappearing he's on flagyl and for pain (when it appears) he gets metacam and tramadol since vet said they are very painful.
 
I have never smelled anything, but the vet did when she lanceted it. He had two one under his jaw - that's the one that keeps returning and it moves around. The other was on the side of his face at the back of his jaw and it affected his jaw bone so they originally thought he had bone cancer, but test came back it was just a very nasty infection. The always pop when I'm at work so I don't know what's in them and he is a very sick boy without them so I don't bother with them he gets too upset.
 
It does sound like a Zymbal's gland tumour to me. Lilspaz has dealt with a few, there should be some threads around. I think it is very individual. It sounds like he has an active infection because you say it is liquidy when you clean deeply. If it dries on the outside then the pus and fluid can't drain and pressure builds up. That can be very painful. It is possible that he has an aggressive infection in his head, affecting his ear, eye, and side of face. If it is bad enough, his bite could be off so you should check his incisors too and make sure he is eating OK.
I'll be curious to see what your vet thinks. Good luck!
 
Back from the vet!

The good news: We have ruled out ZGT, mostly because the lump moved and is no longer in the normal ZGT location.

The bad news: It looks like I am dealing with a systemic infection that is resistant to clavamox, baytril and doxy (YIKES!). The vet thinks that it started as an ear infection and is now systemic and has progressed to the brain stem causing his symptoms. He is extremely lethargic today, my poor boy. We decided to start him on chlorpalm (which is found in the CSF when administered) so it seemed like the best one to go with given the various resistances that I seem to have going on here *sigh*. He is also getting metacam and torbugesic for pain he may be in. He looks so incredibly spaced out right now.

Unfortunately I do not have high hopes. He really isn't looking good and he has gone downhill so fast these last couple days. There is a noticeable difference from this morning to tonight even. I hope he perks up when the Torb wears off, but again, hopes are not high :(

Please send him good vibes
 
I wonder if csf in rats is the same as people - if its on something you can tell its csf from the halo it forms - dark circle in the fluid.

Well, I don't know if that's good or bad news. Flagyl worked well with Throttle's facial infection, but what your rattie is on now worked well for Peanut's eye infection even though he lost the eye.

Your rattie might do better once the pain is under control. Give soft foods. Chewing for Throttle was very painful throughout his head, ears, etc - same for Peanut. We sometimes stood there forever cause the only way he would eat was off our fingers. I would grind oxbow and put it in ensure.

Healing vibes to your baby...
 
Yep! Im trying to get him to eat soft foods, it is not working well though. I tried all the tricks, soft food on fingers, in syringe, loaded with tummy extras, even marshmellow spread (none of my ratters have ever refused marshmellow spread), but he just is so out of it that he won't eat.
I'll post a picture from my phone and you should be able to see what I mean, give me a sec...
 
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You did say he was restless so perhaps besides being drugged he's exhausted and just needs some recovery time. He's a cutie ♡
 
I'm so sorry that you lost him. You did everything that you possibly could and he knows that he was so well loved and well cared-for. He had a wonderful life with you and he'll stay in your heart forever.
 

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