your ideas, intro type questions

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Petunia

Petunia

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
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Nov 21, 2009
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6,126
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USA
I got two new girls last weekend (wow it seems like they've been here forever LOL)

I had planned to QT them in my living room but it didn't work out for several reasons.

So, they have been moved to the bottom half of the double CN cage, my two girls Tilly and Clair have the top.

The two new girls have always been together without any other rats, and my two other girls used to be in a colony of five girls.

The two new girls, Hope and Cookie, go to the top of their section of the cage, while Clair and Tilly go to the bottom edges of their section, and then all four rats puff up and scrabble away trying to get to the others.

They look like they'd all kill each other if I put them together.

I did try putting all four on the bed at the same time when they were all very sleepy, and that lasted all of two minutes before one girl jumped another and chaos ensued, so I put them all back in their respective cages.

Too soon, too soon........

right?

however, I am wondering what, if any, effect there might be from them trying to get to each other and getting all upset, when they are in the different sections of the same cage.

Will it make it harder to eventually introduce them to each other and have them get along?

For out time, Clair and Tilly pretty much stay on the bed, although they have access to the floor, and sometimes Tilly will wander around the room but that's about it

When Cookie and Hope have out time, Hope will run around like a maniac for awhile, tire herself out and find a spot for a nap.
Cookie, however, instantly climbs up the cage and goes into the top section
Then she goes looking for the other girls. (when the new girls have out time, I put Clair and Tilly in the small cage in a different room)
When Cookie goes back to her own cage, she spends a lot of time marking it, on her belly or side rubbing on things etc.

I don't really know what all this means, but it seems to be a bad sign as far as eventual introductions go

am I right to think that?

what can I do at this stage, if anything, to try to smooth things over between the two pairs of girls?
it's not a problem having two different play times, esp since the older girls don't want to stay out as long as the younger two

I just don't know how to set things up for them so that they'll be friends eventually.

I've only been able to introduce new girls to the first pair when they were much younger; when they reached a certain age, around a year or so I guess? they would not have anything to do with new rats, not any of the foster, nor the hospice ratties.

I took in this new pair understanding that they might need to live separate from the other pair, but was hopeful that they'd get along, as the main purpose of getting them was to have some company for whichever of the older girls is left alone by the passing of the other one.

even if they don't want to live together then, at least there will be that option with rats that they've at least met, that are not total strangers, you know?
 
What are all the girls ages?

Keeping them in different sections of the same cage is fine. What you could also do is everyday they change sections. Keep all the same toys and stuff so the rats get used to the smell of the others.
Your first intro can not be on the bed. It's already been claimed by both sets. You need to find a neutral spot like the bathtub or top of the table or couch, somewhere where all the girls have never been.

Also, describe to me what "chaos ensued" means? What exactly happened? Girls jumping on girls is pretty normal and not always a bad thing.
 
jorats said:
What are all the girls ages?

Keeping them in different sections of the same cage is fine. What you could also do is everyday they change sections. Keep all the same toys and stuff so the rats get used to the smell of the others.
Your first intro can not be on the bed. It's already been claimed by both sets. You need to find a neutral spot like the bathtub or top of the table or couch, somewhere where all the girls have never been.

Also, describe to me what "chaos ensued" means? What exactly happened? Girls jumping on girls is pretty normal and not always a bad thing.
Click to expand...


Tilly is almost 20 mos old, Clair is 22 mos old- the new girls, I was told, are about a year old (although they are so much smaller than Clair and Tilly, I wonder if they might not be younger...?)

oh boy, finding a neutral spot will be tough. I can't use the bathtub, because of my bad back, knees and shoulders.

Both pairs of rats have been on the card table and the kitchen table, and my bed.
I do not have a sofa.

That leaves the top of a dresser, I guess? I don't think any of them have been there.

OH, ok, the chaos was that Tilly and Hope were rolling around together fighting and Clair and Cookie were doing the same thing.
three of the girls came out of this brief encounter with a spot where their skin had been broken- Hope was the only one who escaped injury.

I thought if blood was drawn it meant things went really bad and you separate them and try again later, maybe even much later?
 
The scuffle was because it was on familiar ground. The younger ones are tough cookies. What about the kitchen counter? You want something with enough space so they can all move about and explore.
Try and end intros on a good note and not a bad note, because that is what they will remember for the next time. So if there's a scuffle, throw a towel and offer yummy foods, then end the intro.
The scuffles don't sound all that serious, especially if there were no big cuts.
 
jorats said:
The scuffle was because it was on familiar ground. The younger ones are tough cookies. What about the kitchen counter? You want something with enough space so they can all move about and explore.
Try and end intros on a good note and not a bad note, because that is what they will remember for the next time. So if there's a scuffle, throw a towel and offer yummy foods, then end the intro.
The scuffles don't sound all that serious, especially if there were no big cuts.
Click to expand...


oh ok, well I have hardly any counter space, the top of the dresser is bigger (sad, I know, one of the many reasons I was looking at other apts this summer)

What do you mean about throwing a towel? I had to grab up one of each pair to get them off each other, and I figured if I put them back down, they'd just go after each other again.

I honestly can't imagine any of these girls being distracted by food, so I am guessing I need to do this when they are both sleepy AND hungry?


it's ok if they break the skin on each other, so long as it's not a deep cut or bite? eep!

this is gonna be harder on me than on them, I am starting to think.....
I hate seeing anyone get hurt.


Right now Cookie and Hope are out on the bed racing around like little maniacs, they don't stop going for a minute.
I am having a hard time believing they are already a year old, they are so full of energy and so small.

Maybe I am just forgetting how active the older girls were when they were younger.
 
You can throw a towel on them during the scuffle. If you are able to pick them up without one of them turning around and bite you, that's good news. That means it's not aggression and just silly nutty girls.
You could also try putting on a new/clean bedspread on the bed just for the intros of the four, not for any individual play.
 
jorats said:
You can throw a towel on them during the scuffle. If you are able to pick them up without one of them turning around and bite you, that's good news. That means it's not aggression and just silly nutty girls.
You could also try putting on a new/clean bedspread on the bed just for the intros of the four, not for any individual play.
Click to expand...

oh wow, they sure look like they are wanting to kill each other, but I've had no trouble picking them up, they don't turn on me, they actually settle down pretty fast.
Good to know that they are just being silly nutty girls, but wow, girls sure can be rough with each other, eh?

I'll try the new bedding on the bed. I had wanted to put down some plastic under the flannel that I use for them to run around on anyway, to protect the mattress better from pee puddles and other messes.

I'll let you know how it goes!! I might need to take a tranquiler before I do this :giggle:
 
When you are doing intros, do something you enjoy at the same time. I find that singing can calm a person and create better energy. That's what the girls need from you.
 
ok well clearly I am going about this all wrong! I thought I needed to basically stand over them and be ready to break up any serious fights, so that is pretty much what I do. I put them all on the bed together, after changing the covering that I use on my bed,
and then I stand there and watch what happens.


I can't imagine doing anything else!! :giggle:

I put them all on the kitchen table yesterday and that seemed to be ok- they all had some oatmeal with blueberries. I only left them together for like, 5 mins at the most. Probably more like 3 mins.

Can you tell I am very nervous about someone getting hurt?

How long are intros supposed to be?
 
Petunia said:
How long are intros supposed to be?
Click to expand...

When I paired my new pair with my old pair (all boys), I put them on a table and sat there for an hour or two with my boyfriend just talking. Nothing happened but we had towels in hand just in case. After it got too boring, we set up a rabbit cage and put them in that with nothing but a giant piece of fleece, some food, and a water bottle. They were so bored out of their mind. Gradually as one day at a time went by, we added toys. The next, we added an igloo... food bowl... in total, we kept them bored for about 4-5 days before we stuck them in the primary cage.

All rats living together will have their fights to establish dominance. As long as there's no blood, it's okay. My first pair of boys still wrestle and power groom each other after every cage cleaning or over the sleeping house but after a while, they go back to being friends. As long as no one is bitten, I don't even worry about it. Unless something bad is happening between your rats, I don't think you should be too scared about letting them hang out with each other longer.

You should at least try to let them spend 1-2 hours a day with each other and if you have a neutral cage, then place them in that for a couple days. Don't put anything but food water and fleece inside but eliminate anything that they would fight over until after a few days.
 
LoL, I'll confess something - Tim put the girls on edge when they were being introduced to Mr. Honeycomb. He was very worried that either Mr. Honeycomb would hurt the girls, then that the girls would hurt Mr. Honeycomb. Finally after a couple of not-reassuring failed intros, I did it on my own, just sitting and watching (I've had more experience with intros, while he hasn't had any). Sure enough, everyone was calm, there were a couple of scuffles but I also realized the girls were screamers (Petrie screamed at Mr. Honeycomb when he was 6 inches away!).

If you feel better keeping a water bottle on hand to squirt if needed, do so - but otherwise calming music, a book, crosswords... whatever keeps you calm. The rats will then assume that it's no big deal to be introduced to someone else, and they'll sort out who's in charge rather quickly.

Who are the dominants of your two pairs? One advantage I had was Mr. Honeycomb was a full omega (i.e. 100% follower) - so Petrie was able to take up leadership with no challenges whatsoever. I imagine you'll see more scuffles between the alphas.
 

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