Worried about Arthur--doing so much better!

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handmeafish

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Jul 31, 2010
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This started out as kind of a chirping noise, and it took me a while to figure out it was arthur, and not a bird, but its progressed quite a bit.
When Neville got sick, I decided to take Arthur with him to the vet, and the vet felt like he probably just had the beginning of a URI. Because of his age, he was not surprised that he was having issues, so he put him on a Gentimicin neb twice a day. I saw some improvement at first, he stopped making the noise, but the hiccup looking noise that went with it stayed. I continued the neb, because he was prescribed 2 weeks and then a follow up, and about one week later his chirping noise was back. I took him back to the vet at 2 weeks, and told the doc things really hadn't gotten better. Arthur only does this when he relaxes, so stratigly, I had him examine Arthur first and then Harry (who was sneezy and had what looked like bumble foot on both feet) so that Arthur could go back into the box and relax for a minute. As soon as he started up again, I showed Dr. Combs, and he was very concerned about his labored breathing. He listened to his lungs, and he said "his breath sounds are loud, but he doesn't sound moist, which is good" His guess was that maybe he had pneumonia earlier in his life, and it had done some damage.
So he put Arthur on .1ml Baytril twice a day and .04ml Doxy twice a day, and told me to continue the neb, also twice a day... He didn't tell me for how long, but I should have enough for 30 days or so.
Its been 4 days, and I haven't seen much improvement, if any at all... I know its early, but I'm worried. Any suggestions would be very welcome.
He's also developed mushy poo in the past few weeks. I thought maybe it was the Gentimicin, but Dr. Combs said that doesn't normally cause diarrhea in rats. I've given him Bene-Bac in the morning for the past few days, but i don't think its been helping.

Here is a video that I took at the vets, just incase he wouldn't do it again for him. This is one of the worse "episodes" and he isn't like this all the time, but he does this when he snuggles up, to go to bed, or in my lap. He also often does this while being nebulized. So far Dr. Combs seems open to suggestions, so if this doesn't help significantly in the next few weeks, I would like to have another idea to take to him.
 
I've seen mine do that in times of stress and in times of respiratory distress. Give those meds a chance to work. When mine start to look like that, I usually add Zithro along with their Baytril given 30 minutes apart. But doxy can very well give the much needed boost. If Arthur continues to have wet poop, I'd stop the nebulizing, to see if that's the cause.
Also, another thing I have noticed with my rats, when I used to do the nebulizer (with container) on my rats when they were already sick, they seemed to get worse due to the stress of being put in the chamber, which is why I never did the nebulizing during illness. Another thing you might ask your vet is a bronchodialator, to help open up the airways, this might be beneficial especially if the vet thinks this is from earlier damage.
 
He seems ok, but he does it a lot, it you can't hear it in the video but this is when he is chirping. He also stopps if you pick him up to move him or he decideds to move on his own
 
I spoke the vet, and he agrees, give the ABS a few more days to work. He also suggested adding oatmeal for the mushy poo. Hopefully that will set him right.
 
Its been 12 days and I've seen no improvement in Arthur. He's still chirping all night long, (and probably day too, but i'm not here to hear it) At this point it kinda sounds more like a wheeze to me.
I was talking to someone in chat the other day about CHF, and I've been thinking about the CHF symptoms sense last night when I picked arthur up and his feet were freezing. I later noticed that his tail was blue, at the tip.
I gave him .1 of metacam last night, because I remembered that could help both CHF and upper respiratory distress.
Here is the list of symptoms according to Rat guide:

Tires more quickly.-- yes, I let the boys out to roam my whole empty room while I packed a few last things.. he ran around for about 10 mins and then gave up.
Inactive or sleeping more than usual.-- not sense I got him, but I havn't had him long
Weakness of the hind limbs not associated with arthritic conditions or neuropathies-- not as far as I can tell.
Dry cough, bronchial wheeze , or moist lung sounds, making breathing labored. May prop up head to breathe easier.-- Yes x100, especially when he's relaxing. He is wheezing, and his breath sounds are "loud" as described by the vet. His breathing is very labored, and he will sit on top of the igloo to either hang his head down, or prop it up on the little square parts on top.
Enlarged abdomen , and / or swelling in limb(s) and feet , and / or weight gain may be seen due to fluid retention. *Note: the enlarged abdomen and swelling in limbs and feet is not commonly seen in rats with this condition.-- no that i've noticed.
Little to no appetite.-- He's still eating good... Gained a few grams between vet visits... and hoards all the food
Cool, pale extremities (e.g.,ears,feet,tail) due to poor circulation. -- I noticed this for the first time last night.
A noticeable sign with CHF is cyanosis (a blue tinge due to poor oxygenation) of scrotum, toes and tip of tail. This is often a late sign.-- I noticed this last night as well, just at the base of his tail.
May show anxious behavior when breathing becomes harder (e.g., not willing to be held or stay in one place).-- not that i've noticed..
Scant dark (concentrated) urine.- nope..
Dilute Urine if kidney disease present.- nope..

So I don't know how that goes for him... And if some of you feel like its a strong possibility, i'm not sure how to bring it up to my vet. It clearly needs to be soon, but I know any sort of doctors least favorite phrase is "So I read on the internet". I think i may go with the friend angle.. "I was talking to a friend about her rat with CHF, and I noticed that Arthur has many of the symptoms. Is this something we could check into?"

Also, how to they test for CHF, or is it like a looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, sounds like a duck kind of thing?
 
Except for the possible poor circulation, all the other symptoms can be attributed to respiratory illness. How old is he? I'm truthfully inclined to day it's still respiratory in nature, I would give the meds more time to work or try other meds before checking for heart issues. As far as telling the vet about the info you found online, I see nothing wrong with that, you went to look for something that explains his symptoms and you are bringing your suspicions to the vet.

Edited for spelling error.
 
:) thanks vic, Lilspaz said the same thing... and his feet were back to normal this morning. I think maybe it was just cold in my room or something...
The metacam I gave him really helped... hes like a whole new rat now!! He has been running around pop-corning!
He is 375 grams, and I gave him .1ml... I knew this was kind of a middle dose, and it was like 3am, and math wasn't going to happen... so if someone could help me if there is a better dosage to give him :) thanks much. I think i'll try that for a few days and if I see a lot of improvement I'll have to call and actually get some. I only have a little left.

EDIT: Respiratory seems a whole lot better than CHF, but I just want to make sure that he's on the right meds to get better.

And when I read the symptoms for some reason I thought, base of tail was the tip of tail (probably because it says blue scrotum and tip of tail, I was thinking they'd be so close together it made sense)
 
.1 mL of Metacam is actually a pretty low dose of Metacam, but if it's enough to help that's great. Metacam will help with the inflammation in the lungs making it easier to breath and making the rat more comfortable overall. Sometimes it takes time for meds to work, as long as the symptoms aren't worsening, it's worth giving them a few weeks to show their efficacy.
 
I don't know if the heat has anything to do with it (its been in the high 80s), but today and yesterday arthur hasn't been making the terrible noise he makes, and when I ratty phone him his breath sounds are much quieter.
I'm pretty much out of ABS so hopefully it sticks. I ended up giving him .1ml of Metacam as well as the doxy and baytril. I haven't given him the Metacam in two days tho, because he hasn't seemed to need it.
 

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