Signs a rat is ready for intros post-neuter

[hprats]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I've tried to find some info on it here and haven't found it.

Are there any signs that can let me know to start intros after a neuter. Peter was neutered on the 10th, so it's a few days short of 3 weeks. I really want to start intros between Peter and Albus and the babies Harry and Remus (aka Percy...), because the babies are getting bigger and are in a pretty small cage, like a rat starter cage (obviously I'd buy a bigger cage for them if I had to) but I don't want to get things off to a bad start by starting too soon. (Also, Fred is scheduled for a neuter next Thursday. I do want to introduce the babies to the other two as soon as possible, instead of waiting for Fred to calm down.)

The changes I've seen in Peter are that his coat is sleeker (I keep thinking he's lost weight, but I really think it's just a reduction in puffiness) and he popcorns now when I let him out for out time, instead of stalking around the room looking like he's marking objects and sniffing out possible intruders.

He does still get puffy when he investigates the baby's cage, but not as bad as he used to. When I put some cloth from the babies cage into his cage, he doesn't get puffy, but that might just be because he's gotten used to them. I haven't caught him sitting right outside Fred's cage staring at him like he used to all the time, and I haven't heard any through the bar scuffles between those two (though Albus was climbing on the cage and I saw Fred grab some of Albus's fur, pulled what he could through the bars, and bit him, making him shriek (Albus isn't even usually a noisy rat)).

 

[Niana]

I see no reason not to start having short intros
When my boy Pippin was neutered I had him in a seperate cage for about then 10 days to let the wound heal, and I started short intros after that. The intros all went well (but Pippin was never problem outside the cage), and I gradually let all the rats spend more and more tim together in a known play area. There was some messing around, to re-establish the hierachy, but they calmed down fast. After two weeks of this, I moved Pippin in the main cage again. And I observed them closely for awhile, but since it went very well I let him stay there. And things have been great since then

 

[jorats]

Actually, I think this is one question we really didn't explore.
I agree with Niana. I start intros when the rat has healed. If he continues to bully, then I wait a bit. But there's no real sign that will tell you he's ready. You will need to keep testing it. Sometimes the first few intros could be tense and then the rat gradually mellows out with intros. That's the neuter working.

 

[hprats]

Okay thanks! I'm terrified to start trying though, because two big boys in with the two little ones is scarier than one big one in with them. I'll just keep very, very close watch of course, but Peter has always been rougher in fights than Fred. Actually, thinking about it I'm going to wait another week, just because yeah, whenever he gets into fights, the other one comes away with big wounds in seconds.

 

[jorats]

It's also important that you feel comfortable with the intros. So only do it when you feel good about it. The rats can sense your apprehension which can make things worse.

 

[hprats]

Jorats, your last comment actually made me feel like I could start intros. Just the reminder that my attitude is so important (like with dogs, which I understand so much more than rats), made me more confident that with the right attitude, it's worth trying.

So I stuck all four of them in the tub and it went well. Over an hour with no fights, but also very little interaction, so it wasn't great.

I think the older boys weren't themselves...I think that a fight broke out with Fred in the rat room while I wasn't there. I came into the room and Fred was in the wrong cage, both cage doors were open, and Peter was hiding, which is so not like him. It was my third time going in tonight without touching Fred's cage, and he had been in it all day and evening, so I am guessing I failed to lock the latch when I put him back in it this afternoon. It latches in a way you'd think rats couldn't open, but you push it in to lock...I've thought before Peter could open the latch, but it really seems kind of crazy, so I kind of stopped worrying about it...despite having had a similar surprise break out a couple weeks ago.

Albus had a tiny wound and Peter had no obvious wounds but a definite foot/leg injury. I didn't notice until he was already in the tub (I picked him up from being curled up in some blankets and put him straight into the tub), so I decided to go ahead with the intro.

If anything, the fact that this wasn't a huge fight with screams (I was in the other room, but I usually hear noises, like sometimes they'll fight between the bars and I'll hear that) shows that Peter's neuter has worked great. I gave Peter a modest dose of metacam (since he was showing no signs of pain except not using one leg) and I'm going to keep an eye on that. Fred is going in for his neuter tomorrow...I hope I don't have to try and get an emergency appointment for Peter too now!

 

[jorats]

Looks like Fred is determined on intros on his time.
It sounds like the bathtub intro went very well, even if they don't interact with each other, that's good.
And for the cage latch, I've seen a few videos where rats can totally open some of them.