How can I make my rat diet healthier?

[shade]

As of now this is what I feed my rats:

Kaytee forti-diet blocks ( mouse, rat, and hampster)

and this basically has ground corn, soybean meal, ground wheat, ground oats, ground peanuts, etc.

i also mix this in with Kaytee forti-diet crunch w/dental bites for rats and mice.
This is a mix that has a lot of "rolled" foods like barley, corn, and oat groats. then it has ground corn dehulled soybean meal, weat, alfalfa meal, meat meal, sunflower, peanuts, flax seed, poultry meal, fish meal, etc.

My rats get a constant supply of both the blocks and the mix.

along with that I just started feeding them small ammounts of this tropical fruit/nut mix I found at walmart. It's all dried fruit but the rats seem to like it. It has papaya, pineapple, golden raisins, banana chips, apricots, cranberries, almods, cashews and macadamia nuts.

I also give them fresh fruit and veggies every now and then.

Another thing I just bought for them that they're not too crazy about is this beech nut good morning baby cereal. It's whole grain oatmeal with apple and banana flakes in it. I mixed it with water because at the time that was all we had. The boys seemed to like it a lot more than the girls, but the girls were more skiddish about eating it than anything.

So what else could I add/change about my rats diet to make it healthy? The boys eat a lot of the mix and they stash all the blocks and lately the girls have been doing the same.

 

[jorats]

Many people here don't like Katee, they say it's bad food. But honestly, I've never seen why it's so bad compared to the other brands. The one thing I don't like about Katee is the high protein and high fat levels.
Can you look on the bag and tell me what the % is for the protein and fat?
I remember reading somewhere that Katee was changing their formulas.

If you can get a hold of Harlan Teklad or Oxbow regal food, these two are far superior to the Katee commercial rat food.
The fresh veggies and some fruit is excellent. The dried tropical fruit is ok as long as there's no added sugar.

 

[lilspaz68]

Here ya go Jo...

Ingredients
Ground Yellow Corn, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Ground Wheat, Ground Oats, Ground Peanuts, sun-cured Alfalfa Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Dried Cane Molasses, Lignin Sulfonate, Corn Sugar, Calcium Sulfate, Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Vegetable Oil, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Beet Pulp, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Ferrous Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Ethoxyquin (a preservative), L-Lysine, Zinc Oxide, Niacin, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Natural Flavoring.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min.)...........21.0%
Crude Fat (min.)..................4.5%
Crude Fiber (max.)...............7.0%
Moisture (max.)..................12.0%


The thing most people do not like is the Ethoxyquin the preservative...its "said" to cause cancer in rats...a huge debate goes back and forth because of it.

 

[jorats]

Oh ya, those protein levels are way too high.

Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservatives, an antioxidant, just like BHA which is found in Mazuri rat food.
And unfortunately, both are linked to health concerns in animals.

 

[shade]

alright, I'll be sure to look up harlen and oxbow. Thank you

 

[Moon]

This relates to dog food specifically... but all the same

"Ethoxyquin – What is it ?

The U. S. Dept. of Agriculture for toxicology information lists ethoxyquin in their Farm Chemical Hand-Book as a pesticide, used in fruit scald control. It is also used as a rubber preservative. It is FDA approved for use as an antioxidant for carotenes vitamin A and E and the prevention of the development of organic peroxides.

It is approved at 150 ppm in paprika and chili powder, and because it is used as a preservative in livestock feed, the following residue allowances in human consumed animal products as follows: 5 ppm in or on the uncooked fat of meat from animals except poultry; 3 ppm in or on the uncooked liver and fat of poultry, 0.5 ppm in or on the uncooked muscle meat of animals, 0.5 ppm in poultry eggs, and zero in milk.

The above information brings up the question why the FDA allows such a small amount of ethoxyquin residue (5 to .5 ppm) in human consumed foods yet allows such high amounts (150 ppm) to be used in pet food and livestock feeds?

In the case of the dog, pound for pound, a dog is consuming up to 300 times more ethoxyquin than allowed for people. (depending upon the weight) Also many dog food manufacturers are not always listing it as an ingredient on the packaging, but sometimes merely print "E".

The manufacturer’s own cautionary warnings in using and handling this product: that it may cause allergic skin reactions, irritation to the eyes and skin. They advise that workers must wear eye and respiratory protection. The container of ethoxyquin has a very prominent skull and crossbones with POISON written in capital letters.

Ethoxyquin is listed and identified as a hazardous chemical under the criteria of the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910, 1220).

The Chemical Toxicology of Commercial Products says that ethoxyquin has a toxic rating of 3 (on a scale of 1 to 6, with 6 being super toxic requiring less than 7 drops to produce death). At that level it can slowly develop depression, con-vulsions, coma and death; skin irritation and liver damage.

In a recent study by The Department Of Pathology, Nagoya City University Medical School Japan, it was found: ethoxyquin promoted kidney carcinogenesis. Also, it significantly increased incidence of stomach tumors and enhanced bladder carcinogesis.

The FDA maintains it is safe, yet have asked pet food manufacturers to "voluntarily" lower the levels to 75 PPM.

In other words, some of the preservatives in your dogs’ food are known carcinogenics !"
[/quote]

 

[lilspaz68]

Moon are you able to find a writeup on BHA as well?

 

[SQ]

Shade, not only would it be a good idea to change your lab block as previously mentioned, but also give some veg.s every day and a bit of fruit often, if not daily. The forbidden foods list can be found at http://www.petratscanada.com

Harlan 2016 or 2014 can be ordered from various rescues in the US such as Kims Ark.
The Living World hamster extrusion is ok if you are unable to get Harlan or Oxbow Regal rat.

 

[shade]

alright I'll be sure to

 

[Moon]

Here's a bit comparing the three:

"Ethoxyquin
Promoted kidney carcinogenesis.
Significantly increased incidence of stomach tumors.
Enhanced bladder carcinogenesis.

BHA
Enhanced stomach and urinary bladder carcinogenesis.
Causes squamous-cell carcinomas in stomachs.
(Cancers of this type are among the most lethal and fastest acting, the swiftest effects being seen among animals with light colored fur.)

BHT
Promoted urinary bladder carcinogenesis.
Could be a promoter of thyroid carcinogenesis.
Studies have noted that BHA and other antioxidants, particularly Propyl Gallate and ethoxyquin, showed additional effects in inducing stomach hyperplasia and cytotoxicity.

According to Dr. Wendell Belfield, DVM, practicing veterinarian for some 26 years, both BHA and BHT are known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction and are banned in some European countries. He adds that ethoxyquin is suspected of causing cancer and that propylene glycol (a pet food ingredient closely related to anti-freeze) causes destruction of red blood cells.

Ethoxyquin is listed and identified as a hazardous chemical by OSHA. It has a rating of 3 on a scale of 1 to 6, with 6 being super toxic requiring less than 7 drops to cause death. When manufactured by Monsanto, the containers are marked with the word POISON. Monsanto makes no representations and will not be responsible for damages of any nature whatsoever. The Department of Agriculture lists and controls Ethoxyquin as a pesticide. "

This link: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=2688
touches on it... but adds this which is interesting:

"BHT and BHA are synthetic analogues of vitamin E, and are often used together. BHA is relatively stable at high temperatures. Both of these antioxidants are Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) by the FDA when used at specific levels, and they are the most common preservatives in human food. There is, however, continuing controversy as to the safety of these substances, as well. Both have been suspected of being carcinogens; however, in 2 animal studies, BHT and BHA have been shown to actually protect against cancer if they are added to food before an animal is exposed to a carcinogen. More research is needed to determine the true effect of these preservatives."

I have not been able to find specific information about those studies.

 

[shade]

Ok so I'm ordering lab blocks as I.. type and i'm going to order both harlan and oxbow for my rats to see which they prefer. The one other question I had was when I was looking at some other food threads, I heard something about only feeding them lab blocks and then fruits and veggies. I feed mine that, but they also get fed a mix food. It used to be kaytee brand but I just switched to Nutriphase rat and mouse formula because it seemed healthier for them.

Details::
Formulated specially for PetSmart, this unique blend of cereal grains, protein sources and nutrients gives your pet mouse or pet rat a healthy start and nutritional support throughout an active life. Pet mice and rats have unique nutritional needs that can only be met by eating the proper diet. Nutriphase foods offer excellent nutrition at a great value.

Ingredients: Corn, sunflower, wheat, dehulled soybean meal, oat groats, dehydrated alfalfa meal, milo, shelled peanuts, toasted corn flakes, ground corn, ground wheat, ground oats, dried bananas, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, pumpkin seed, raisins, dried papaya, dehydrated carrots, ground peanuts, dried cane molasses, wheat middlings, corn gluten meal, lignin sulfonate, animal fat (preserved with BHT), corn sugar, brewers dried yeast, dried beet pulp, vitamin a supplement, dl-methionine, l-lysine, choline chloride, riboflavin supplement, ferrous carbonate, vitamin e supplement, vitamin b12 supplement, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ethoxyquin (a preservative), zinc oxide, niacin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin k activity), cholecalciferol (source of vitamin d3), calcium pantothenate, copper oxide, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, calcium iodate, biotin, folic acid, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite, artificial color, natural flavors.

Guaranteed Analysis:

* Crude Protein (min) 16.0%
* Crude Fat (min) 7.0%
* Crude Fiber (max) 10.0%
* Moisture (max) 12.0%

I just wanted to know if it is ok to feed them this along with their lab blocks.

 

[jorats]

I personally wouldn't feed it. I don't like the BHT or the fat being 7%.
If you really need to feed a mix, then I'd recommend making your own with things like chickpeas, oatmeal, dried bananas... but when doing this, make sure to watch the sugar and salt in the mixes.