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lametigerjail

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
15
Location
Wisconsin
Hi! My name is Stacy, I'm 21, and I found this forum through Jorats's Youtube, which I subscribed to quite a while ago. :D I have two ratties named Grif and Neddy!

Now onto my question.

I'm treating both rats for upper respiratory illness. The vet said that the medicine is not a cure, but it will slow the process.

I know that it is contagious, but I was wondering exactly HOW contagious is it? I was thinking about adopting another couple of rats. I'd of course give them a different cage and everything. Right now my rats are on one side of a 20ft long room, so I was wondering if it is okay for another pair of rats to be on the opposite side of the room?

I've been trying to read as much as I can about how contagious it is, and half of the things I've read said that you should keep them in a different room (or house), change your clothes and wash your hands between visits with each pair of rats, and so on. The other half of the things I've read says that it should be fine and they wouldn't even separate their sick ones from the healthy ones because that would stress them out more. So I wanted to know exactly how contagious it really is.

Please reply, and thanks a lot!!!
I <3 my ratties! :D
 
Hello. Welcome :)

What did your vet give you for the URI? What the vet likely meant about the meds not being a cure is that rats will always have mycoplasma-they get it when they are born unless they are raised in a sterile lab and delivered via c-section and never exposed to other rats that have it. Stress, and secondary infections can set in though and cause the infection to "flare up" (I think someone once compared it to herpes if that helps explain?).

So since all pet rats carry mycoplasma, that is not something to worry about with other rats. However, there are other infections that are contagious. There is, to name a few, Sendai, SDA, CAR Baccilus, etc. In our pet rats it is often fatal. This is why quarantine is so essential. Quarantine involves keeping your new and current rats in a different airspace (READ: Not the same house!) for a minimum of three weeks. During this time you monitor for illness (bearing in mind new rats may sneeze a bit in the beginning, maybe a week) like wheezing, lethargy, etc. If there is illness, you get them treated, and extend quarantine for a minimum of three weeks after the cessation of symptoms. It is not common, usually you just do three weeks and then they can move in, but it is absolutely necesarry to quarantine (unless you live in the UK or other places where this is not an issue).

Some rescues pre-quarantine the rats for you, so if you can not quarantine them that is your best bet.

Also, the people saying they don't remove rats that are sick are talking about rats that have already been living together, this is because, if they were contagious the other rat would have already been exposed.

Also, part of quarantine also includes waiting at least three hours after going to a pet store with rats (they're better avoided anyway, since most support mills, are more expensive than buying online, and can put your rats at risk if you can't go out for three hours after the store.)
 
Thanks for the advice, though I'm a little confused as to what my rats exactly have then, if the medicine is supposed to clear away all signs of it until they "flair up again" (correct me if I misinterpreted). I'm giving them Doxycycline now, twice daily. (The vet gave me two medicines to give them twice daily, Doxycycline and another one I can't remember its name but it was pink and thickish. But no matter how hard I tried, Neddy would not take it for me, even when I mixed it with several different foods.) I noticed when I took Neddy off of meds to see how he was doing, he got so much louder with his chirping, squeaking, and hooting, that it was painful to hear him suffer. So back on the medicine, is quieter with his bouts of squeaking and hooting, etc. Though I know he's getting worse gradually even when on the medication, because it's more constant than it ever was before, lasting longer and such. I'm not sure how to describe his squeaking bouts, hopefully you guys know what I mean. I can only describe it as, he looks like he's hiccuping and he gives these short squeaks or even some deep hooting noises sometimes, while his back goes up and down. The vet said he sounded congested. He's done the hiccuping motion and hooting sound for as long as I had him, just not nearly as often or as bad as what it's come to be. It was very rare back then. So that's been about 7+ months ago.

The vet said that it's very contagious and I should start treating Grif with the same medication, which I did back when I had Doxy and that other pink one, but he didn't seem to need the medicine, so I stopped it. Sometime after that (maybe a few weeks-ish) Grif started the chirping/squeaking sound with the hiccuping motions. His aren't often at all, and last a short time, but are louder and tougher than Neddy's.

Since I've been reading up on medicines the last few days, I'm second guessing myself and wondering if I shouldn't try a different medicine? I believe Neddy's slowly getting worse, which the vet said was bound to happen even though they're on medicine. "It's not a cure, it's a treatment to slow down the process". But now I'm not so sure that it's normal, is what I'm getting from different sites and you guys. :/

*sigh* So hopefully you guys can tell me a bit more, with my new descriptions of it, and coming from dedicated rat owners, I might try something different or keep on doing the same. I just have been feeling bad when I hear my poor babies coughing, and chirping like crazy.

And then now since you hopefully know what my rats have, or have more clue to what they have, maybe now you can tell me if it's okay to bring new rats into my room? I just don't want to give new rats an illness that my own rats have, just because I'd be selfish and want new rats. I can talk to the humane society about keeping them there for quarantine (I don't know if this counts, but wouldn't they actually be quarantined anyway, if they've been at the humane society for at least several weeks now?) Thanks a lot for the help! I just really want to continue to learn about my fuzzy critters, because I hope to be the best mommy I can be, to them. :D
 
I wouldn't bring in any new rats until you're seeing improvement, and the sounds Grif is making aren't good. They are probably both suffering from a respiratory infection that has been exacerbated by the Myco that all rats have. Doxy on its own isn't strong enough most of the time, the other medication you were given was *probably* Baytril and the two really need to be used in combination. Your vet is correct that the Myco will never leave, but Myco on it's own isn't the concern, it's the secondary infections like the ones your boys have now that are the problem... but your vet saying they will not be cured of their illness is totally unsettling. Neddy should NOT be getting worse with medications, unless he has something else entirely like heart failure or growths in the lungs.
 
You said they chirp and hoot with hiccupping motions? These sound like actual hiccups. They should be silent but sometimes they won't be. A sick rat won't be silent, an impending URI might not be silent and a rat with scarred lungs won't be silent. Is there any other time he makes noises beyond the hiccupping? Can you lift him up in 2 hands and put his side (lung) to your ear like a phone receiver? (called rat phone)...wait til he stops moving and listen careful. You should only hear his heart beat, and maybe the quiet whoosh of air in and out. If there are any sounds like crackling, gurgling, wheezing, etc then you have a URI.

The Myco as Moon said isn't the issue, the myco bombards the immune system until it finds a weakness and lets a secondary infection in. Some rats have better immune tmhan others but most rats will need help/antibiotics to get better.

Doxy as was also previously mentioned on its own is probably not enough to make him better. The other med likely was baytril as they are a tried and true combo for URI's in rats. Combination of medications do a lot more to cure than a single antibiotic.

Is your boy lethargic, have any porphyrin around his nose or eyes (red discharge), is he eating/pooping/peeing fine, and is he still active?
 
I really wish I could remember what the pink second medicine we used in combination... but like I said, Neddy wasn't having it any way I would give it to him, and it was only stressing him out and making it really hard on both of us. The little bugger would actually wipe it off of his mouth and onto my pants or anything else he could reach!! So I think I would have to give him a different medicine altogether if Doxy isn't enough by itself... >_<

Is there anyway to post a video on here? Like even if I could just post a link to a youtube video or something? Because I could try recording his sounds for you guys sometime. All I have right now is a webcam, but hopefully that'll pick up enough sound for you to figure out what he's doing. I really don't think it's actual hiccuping, because it happens so often in Neddy. It never used to be this often, and he would somehow clear it up by sneezing (or snooshing, or however you could say it) and then he would clean his nose. That would always make me happy because at least it was getting out of his system that way (the way I pictured it, would be comforting at least). But now it's just a constant noise, off and on again, so many times during the day. Grif's isn't often at all, his is just more burly sounding, more gruff, loudish, tough.

Grif has always been the more energetic one, he'd actually leap into the air and pounce. He usually gallops like a horse or a feisty cat, it's really awesome and funny to see. :D And even though Neddy's calmer, he's not any more lethargic than I can tell. He still climbs up the sides of the cage, or tries to climb his way out of their play pen that they have. Sometimes he gets pretty hyper as well and starts attacking Grif in a play-fighting match, even though it's usually the other way around. They have a good appetite, they both poop and pee. So I have no concerns with any of those things right now. Just the noises they make, because of their illness (which I still assume it's some sort of URI).

I would totally bring Neddy over here and film him with the webcam for a while if I didn't have to get ready for work right now... So that will have to wait for now.

But thanks so much for all the welcomes, and all the help you guys are giving me. :D I really appreciate all the concern and the advice, so please keep the replies coming. Because I'd do anything to find out what exactly is wrong with them, and treat them for it the best I can (and hope they cooperate with me by taking any meds I offer haha!). And I think I'm going to stay concerned with their illness and figuring out what else I can do for them for now, and try and force the idea of adopting those ratties to the back of my mind... even though it's so hard because I'd love to give them a home!!! xP
 
Finally finished uploading the video of Neddy. I made one for Grif too but he wasn't doing any of the sounds or anything, so I didn't bother uploading that one yet. Please either read the description before watching, or read what I'm about to post after I post the video (It's going to be the description because I'm too lazy to explain everything again) But pretty much it deals with the sound quality, and that on this particular computer (and yours might be like that too, so this is important) I had to have the speakers ALL THE WAY UP in order to hear his squeaking on the video. You most likely won't be able to hear his squeaking until the .50 seconds mark, and after 1 minute it gets louder and clearer to hear because I put him up to the computer screen. So thank you all so much and I really hope you guys can give me advice, or responses in some way! Thanks again :D

[youtube:2p4xfrkn]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzevoYp6f3M[/youtube:2p4xfrkn]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzevoYp6f3M

This is my rat Neddy. He has an upper respiratory infection and constantly squeaks for quite a while usually, and then stops for a while, and then does it again, then stops again. I'm posting this video on http://www.theratshackforum.com so that I can better understand how to help my furry children.

NOTE!!!!!: You may want to put your volume up all the way (I had to in order to hear it on this computer)! And you can't really begin hearing his squeaky breathing until .50 sec mark. You start to hear it really good (if your speakers are pretty much full blast) after a minute.

Please be patient and try and hear the sounds even if this is a 3 minute long video, if you are willing to help me. I appreciate any advice from experienced rat owners, especially those already on The Rat Shack forum and know my situation. But any other advice, is obviously welcome! Thanks so much! :D
 
Hello! Welcome to the Shack! They are great here and will help you get it all figured out. That is one big handsome man rat! I have never seen a rat so big! And he's gorgeous! I hope you are able get him and his brother feeling better soon.
 
It's hard to hear but it does sound like there is some congestion there. He looks otherwise healthy though, which is a very good thing. Is there anything in his environment that could be irritating his breathing? (I'm not trying to say he doesn't have an infection but making sure there aren't any other stressors.) What kind of bedding, litter, cleaning products do you use? Does anyone in the house smoke?

I have had a boy on meds for a year now and whenever he has a flareup (gets congested, starts wheezing or making other breathing sounds) I have to get creative because there's not much left to fight with since he's already on antibiotics. I always make sure the cage is clean (even if there's not a flare up), make sure he's eating and drinking enough (a weak rat is much less likely to recover), take him to the bathroom and steam him as many times as I can (run a hot shower while I sit with him for 5-10 minutes), and I try to get the air in the bedroom (where he lives) as clean as possible by opening windows if it's warm enough (rats should be protected from drafts though), vacuuming and mopping, and cranking the air purifier. More and more, I'm also a huge believer in probiotics and their role in fighting infections. I'm experimenting with different ones to see which works out best for the rats, just be sure to look into any you are looking to buy, some are really good and others aren't.

There's an entire thread on masking meds here viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4656, experiment and find what works for you, there will be something that Neddy will take. My current mix (it keeps on evolving as my rats decide they are tired of the old one) is unsweetened apple sauce, with peanut butter, sweet potato baby food, and a little bit of honey and canola oil. A mix only a rat could love. Keep in mind if you are masking Doxy you want to avoid calcium in the mix and always give the smallest amount needed to mask the meds so that they all get eaten.

Welcome!
 
Thanks a lot! My Neddy is a very handsome man rat!! Hehehe! Yeah I'm sorry it's very hard to hear on the stupid webcam. My camcorder picks up more sound, but I don't have the cord in order to put the videos onto the computer... And I can't believe you said he's the biggest rat you've ever seen! His brother is actually a bit bigger than him, and he was the biggest rat I'd ever seen up until we visited those two rats at the humane society!! One of those rats was HUUUGEEE! Oh that poor rat, he had some rolls on him. >_< They said they were trying to get him to diet but it wasn't working out well yet. Eeek!

Thanks for all the advice about masking meds, though I don't need to mask the Doxy that I give them. I feel so bad, but I forgot the name of the other medicine that the vet said should go with the Doxy, and that's the medicine that Neddy just WOULD NOT eat, no matter what I mixed with it. But I wasn't as creative as you with the baby food and apple sauce and all of that! So I may have to talk with my doctor and see if there's either anything else I can give them, or try that pink medicine with the Doxy again. But yeah, all I have to do is put the Doxy onto a small piece of white bread and they love it! Haha. My boyfriend is getting their medicine ready right now, and just informed me we're almost out of Doxy anyway, so I may have to call the vet and see what I can do pretty soon. I'm just nervous because I don't want it backfiring on me again, and I'm nervous because I want them to get better as soon as I can and not just sit around making them take medicine that won't even work anyway, you know? -_- But trial and error I guess... It's just so frustrating having my babies sick all the time. (And only now finding out that they're not supposed to be making any noise if the medicine actually worked) Ahhh!!! Haha.

And as for stressors... I use Aspen for bedding (the first vet I went to when Neddy started getting worse told me to change the bedding out to fleece, but since they didn't like using the litter box too often, it stunk up really fast and Neddy got so much worse, so I changed it back to Aspen immediately), I use water+vinegar mix as a cleaner, there shouldn't be any draft because we live in a basement right now and this room of the basement was just redone completely (paneling on the walls, and new cement floor and carpeting), I've been keeping a humidifier going almost every night and some part of the day because I know it should help them with breathing. And I'm very sad to say, while this basement was getting done (in a matter of 3-4 months) we were in the living room upstairs with the rats, and my mom is a smoker... Neddy seemed to be getting worse so I'd make her smoke in the bathroom, but my mom is a stubborn lady and would sneak smokes in the other room (our living room, dining room, and kitchen are all open areas to each other), so I'm sad to say, the smoke was probably still affecting them... and I absolutely hated it. But they've been down here since just before Christmas and she doesn't smoke down here.

Please keep the advice coming, I really appreciate all of your help!!! Soon I will get in touch with my vet and try to figure out what that pink medicine was called and try that again. Maybe if he starts taking it, I can let him take it for as long as I have it, until it's gone, and then see if I notice an improvement. But I really really really really really hope he takes it!! I will look into how to mask it. It's just so sad that I have to throw out whatever he doesn't eat (including the bit of medicine I added). But I'm willing to try again! :D
 
What was with the doxy was very likely baytril, it's the most common combo. I wonder, was it maybe not concentrated enough? If I had to give, say .5cc if baytril, I don't think mine would eat it either! Lol. A quick call to the vet will get you what he was on though. It should be in their computer.

If they refuse, you have to wrap them up and squeeze it in their mouth, being careful that they don't aspirate it.
 
I'm not sure, but I'm thinking that you all are right about the medicine name. I looked up the real name and it's like Enroflaxacin or something of the sort, which sounds familiar. I called the vet but realized it's a Sunday, so I can't until tomorrow. I will end up getting the other medicine though along with Doxy since the Doxy isn't enough on its own. I wasn't too creative when trying to hide the pink medicine... I put it in bread, on a banana chip, banana itself, I got some Ferretvite but they didn't even like that lol... and that's about all I could think of. Not too creative. I'm going to try baby food or something next time, something with meat or something, I'm not sure yet. And I'm not sure how concentrated it was or should be... because it was thicker than the Doxy... which made it extremely difficult to give a little at a time through the syringe. It would either end up missing because Neddy can get awfully squirmy, or he'd end up wiping his mouth on my pants. I don't think feeding through the syringe is an option, really. But reading that thread about masking medicines really inspired me to try and try again! I've got a mental list of all the food items/baby food items that I want to try! I just really hope I can get SOMETHING to work. And of course when I get the medicine, and the food mixtures, I'll let you all know how it goes and if it really is the medicine you all think it is. :D

Again, thanks for being with me through this, when dealing with this, sometimes I felt alone in it, and felt helpless that I couldn't do anything about my babies being sick. Thank you all so much! :D <3
 
Oh, I don't give meds with a syringe - I mix it in a little bowl and supervise while they lap it up. Some rats are fine with a syringe - I know one member gives her young rats treats through a syringe so when it's time to medicate they take it happily.
 
I generally do too, but when they won't take the meds mixed up, I've no qualms with forcibly medicating them with the syringe-its too risky to not let them get the meds.
 
Dazzle87 said:
I generally do too, but when they won't take the meds mixed up, I've no qualms with forcibly medicating them with the syringe-its too risky to not let them get the meds.
Click to expand...

Yes, when necessary, I force feed meds too. I just avoid it where I can.
 
I just came home from work and I picked up some baby food too! It's pretty late right now, but I'm very tempted to take out the rats to play and give them a sample of the baby food to see their reactions!!! Though now that I think of it, I may want to mix in peanut butter because that might be how I'd want to feed them their medicine whenever I get it...... but then again... if I feed it to them now without the medicine, then they might know something is up when I do give them their medicine in it. (Neddy's the only one I'm worried about, Grif seems to eat both medicines fine just plain on bread!)

Ugh... maybe I'll make myself wait. I'm glad I replied to this thread with my decisions, because it helped me change mine. What a mistake it would have been if they ate it tonight (free of medicine) but not tomorrow (with medicine)! Though it'll be doubly painful if I give it to them tomorrow, hyped up on hope that they'll eat it wonderfully well, and then turns out they might stick their nose up at it... :doh:

But ENOUGH of those thoughts! Positive thoughts, everyone!! I really want my babies to get better! :D Hehehe!

Oh and I agree about the syringe, it's very important to get their meds in them, it's just difficult when the syringe doesn't even help do that! Because of how I try to syringe feed Neddy's medicine into his mouth... and then Neddy will just let it drip from his mouth all over the place... Ugh. What a little devil. <3
 

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