Death. Neuter.

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RKbusy

RKbusy

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
611
Location
Ottawa ON, Canada
Sorry if I am not very coherent in this post, but I just got back for a long day.

I brought Petri and Skemo in for surgeries today. Petri is 2 years 3 months and needed a tumor removed from her chest. That seems to have gone fine so far (at least she's still breathing, is response, but is very lethargic).

Skemo died. He was in for a neuter.

This was done by Dr. Mobarak at Bank Street Animal Hospital. The same place/same vet I've been using since 2009. He's done so many neuters for me I can barely remember. Spook, Marley, Monkey, Sketch, Goliath, Splinter, Billy, Edgar, Mousse, etc etc. And I never had any issue with ANY of them.

He asked me to take Skemo back as soon as I found his laying unresponsive. Dr. Mobarak gave him CPR + Oxygen plus 2 shots. I was into the chest area of only 0.025ml of something clear. THe other was a 0.7 ml of something clear, but that was more in the abdomen. Obviously, this didn't work, because he's dead.

THen, judging by the "pooling" of blood near the neuter site and the fact that they was blood just dripping out from the stitches after all the vigorous CPR, he says, "I'm sorry, but there is an issue with clotting. THis rat is not clotting." THis was about 3.5 hours after the surgery had been initially done.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I've EVER heard of this. Skemo was perfectly healthy. And evidenced by the fact that he's missing about an inch of his tail (was like that when I took him in), he obviously CAN heal.

The thing is, when I was getting ready to wrap Skemo into his fleece (I do this with every rat that passes away), I tilted him up a bit and blood just leaked RIGHT out of him and all over my arm. This just doesn't seem normal to me.

THe other thing that has me worried is that Skemo was under about THREE towels and there were 2 VERY VERY warm plastic gloves full of hot water packed in under the towels with him. I know we're supposed to keep our rats warm after surgery, but THAT warm? I noticed that Petri had the same arrangement (several towels and the two basically hot gloves), but she had struggled out from under that and had preferred to lay on TOP of them. I'm worried that his new vet techs (they are ALL NEW there right now) heard him instruct them to "keep them warm" and so they did this and somehow it killed Skemo.

I just want to know what the experts here think. Because I don't know what to think.
 
What is his protocol do you know? Does he use gas or injectable anesthetics?

Extra heat won't hurt him during recovery beyond possible burns that show up later on.

I am so very very sorry. :(
 
I'm so sorry.

Was it a scrotal or abdominal neuter? How long did they keep him before they let you take him home?

If there was a clotting issue, I think the vet would/should have known during the surgery. It sounds like he was closed up without making sure the bleeding had stopped and he hemorrhaged. I know my vet has had issues with the ligaments that ovaries are attached to snapping back and some bleeding as a result but he's always been able to clamp it and stop the bleeding and all of my rats were fine afterward. I guess you can ask about how much post op pain meds he was given but even then, meloxicam is much more likely to cause GI bleeding.

It don't think the technicians caused this. Maybe they put too much on top of him to keep him warm but it sounds like he wasn't well enough to get himself out from under the pile like your other rat did. It doesn't sound like his death was a result of heat stroke or burns or dehydration that you would expect if he were overheated.
 
He uses an inhaled anesthetic from what know. I absolutely insisted that he always use inhaled. But maybe he uses an injection afterward, because when I go in for a euthanization, he will used the inhaled, and he suggested once that we use an inject-able anesthetic to speed it up. I declined that, but I'm not there for the surgery itself, so I wouldn't know.

I can call him back and ask him.

It was a scrotal neuter, like all the other neuters he's done for me.

THe surgery was done by 1pm. I picked him up at around 3:30. Got home by 3:50pm almost 4. Noticed the stillness, and got him back to the vet at around 4:15pm.

YOu're right, you'd think he would notice DURING the surgery if He was bleeding uncontrollably!ually

Actually their new intern asked me for permission to take photographs during the surgery for her class. I'm going to contact her and get her to give me a copy of all her photos.
 
It was never uncontrolled bleeding in my boys but it wouldnt clot up after so it did start to pool up and it ended up almost filling his scrotum up. I have pictures somehwhere. I had two bleeders but neither were to intense. I wonder if the cpr could of broke something? I would assume cpr right after a neuter it would be weaker. I had boys who had horrible responses to the meds and they never really woke up. They just laid there unresponsive as your boy. You could take him to another vet for a necropsy? sadly that will be the only way for a real answer.

I am sorry about your loss.
 
I've seen it happen in male rabbits that they have bleeding post op (I think it's sometimes called blue balls) but it's not that much blood loss that quickly. It honestly sounds like he wasn't well when you picked him up and the clinic missed the warning signs.
 
This is a really tragic, sad case. I hope you can get those pictures, and if you'd be okay with it, maybe post them on here. ):
 
I'm so sorry. You need to talk more to your vet about what went wrong.

My vet is excellent and has done many spays and neuters with no complications. Once a young female who was apparently recovering fine just suddenly died. There was no obvious cause, but some rats react to the anaesthetic with arrhythmias. Surgery always carries some risk. I had heard that the sister of my rat had died young, so maybe there was a congenital heart problem with her.

But it is useful that the intern has photos, and your vet is likely trying to figure out what happened. I hope you can get some resolution-- so sad to lose a rat who is apparently healthy.
 

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