Confused about 8in1 Ecotrition Snak Shak log???

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crumbilina said:
Dazzle87 said:
How would you keep rats from peeing on it? They mark everything and pee in their sleep. Plus even then pine itself releases phenols, it doesn't have to mix with pee to be harmful.

I also didn't say pee turns to phenols, I said that the urine coming in contact with the pine causes more phenols to be released.
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Sorry, I just don't understand where this phenol thing comes from.

Everyone says phenol... but I was looking at other compounds (not phenol) that seemed to be far worse in pine (their names slip my mind right now, if I can remember what they are called I'll post again).

Maybe I am over analyzing... it happens ;)
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Phenol is a smaller word for aromatic hydrocarbons. Is that what you're talking about?

I'm guessing this is pointless, but for those saying you'd see problems, with all the factors how would you know that breathing in the phenols from the pine is what exacerbated your rats URI? It's hard to notice. And unless you get blood work done before and after buying one, you wouldn't notice liver damage either. Is it as bad as them living on pine bedding? No, but it is still pine, which does damage even in small quantities.

Edit: I mean no offense, I just mean that im not changing peoples minds. I realized what I said came out wrong.
 
Dazzle87: No, that isnt what I am looking for. My brain just doesn't want to power up this morning. It will come to me. Its bugging me a lot though!

Remember everyone, that chewing is not injesting, BUT when you chew you still inhale particles of what you are chewing. Taste is part scent, you smell what you eat and can inhale particles of what you eat.

I agree with Dazzle on this one, even if it is still a different toxic compound name. It may not be enough to do any immediate harm, but I don't use pine bedding for a reason so why would I introduce pine in a different form?
 
Pine bedding has shown us that it's bad for rats ..but from what I can see, no one has had any problems with the snak shaks!
 
Pine has been shown to be bad for rats, and other mammals, it doesn't have to be bedding to be bad. Humans who work with lumber, they don't live on the pine but just work with it, have respiratory problems from it.

Back when pine was viewed to be safe, everyone said oh but I dont see any symptoms. It doesn't mean damage wasn't being done to their rats.
 
Dazzle87 said:
Pine has been shown to be bad for rats, and other mammals, it doesn't have to be bedding to be bad. Humans who work with lumber, they don't live on the pine but just work with it, have respiratory problems from it.

Back when pine was viewed to be safe, everyone said oh but I dont see any symptoms. It doesn't mean damage wasn't being done to their rats.
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Well said.

We don't know. It is still a new product. What are the long term effects from using it? We really don't know.

I'm not saying it is enough to damage anything, because I can't back that up with any evidence. But I don't think that the product has been around long enough to show if there are any long term effects.

I really wish I saved that msds sheet that I was looking at last night... it has the names and all the information on LD50 and accumulation *sigh*
 
Dazzle87 said:
Pine has been shown to be bad for rats, and other mammals, it doesn't have to be bedding to be bad. Humans who work with lumber, they don't live on the pine but just work with it, have respiratory problems from it.

Back when pine was viewed to be safe, everyone said oh but I dont see any symptoms. It doesn't mean damage wasn't being done to their rats.
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what I am seeing as a difference here is that this pine you're discussing ...shavings, raw lumber are just that...raw, not processed like Eco-Shaks are. Wouldn't the processing prior to pressing it remove all the phenols?
 
lilspaz68 said:
Dazzle87 said:
Pine has been shown to be bad for rats, and other mammals, it doesn't have to be bedding to be bad. Humans who work with lumber, they don't live on the pine but just work with it, have respiratory problems from it.

Back when pine was viewed to be safe, everyone said oh but I dont see any symptoms. It doesn't mean damage wasn't being done to their rats.
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what I am seeing as a difference here is that this pine you're discussing ...shavings, raw lumber are just that...raw, not processed like Eco-Shaks are. Wouldn't the processing prior to pressing it remove all the phenols?
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Wouldn't it depend on how it is processed?
We'd have to look at the manufacturing process and then determine from each step of that if the toxic compounds would be destroyed...

OR determine what would destroy the compounds...
 
If it is kiln dried, which I don't know if it is?, perhaps someone can call and ask, most pine shavings are left to air dry because it is cheaper, it removes most but not all of the phenols.
 
I am curious to find out the answers. Mine enjoyed the ones they had, and it took them months to chew them down. When I went to buy another one, I hesitated after reading the ingredients, so they never got a new one.
 
Wow...quite the long convo on Snak Shaks lol I am very curious now myself. I've never bought one for any of my rodents (They're over priced here in my opinion) but always thought they were different ingredients in them. I have seem some vegetable product chews before though, so maybe someone would listen to a vegetable product Snak Shak....
 
Oh good, I know it drives me crazy when I don't remember. I will look those up, I've never seen mention in them that I remember in articles about the dangers of pine.
 
My boyfriend is in organic chemistry. I asked him to look into it for me and these are the compounds he told me would be most harmful to living things. Then I proceeded to look them up last night. Mostly I just looked at the msds sheets that are online if that helps. I really didn't feel like doing full on research since I had been doing that all day.

Happy searching. They really are gross, but their LD50 (oral) is pretty high, thats a good sign. Although, I didn't look for inhalation...
 

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