Chronic URIs seem to be worsening... perhaps with age?

[la_marée_haute]

Hi everyone,

I'm not sure if anyone will remember me, but I have two rats (brothers) - Olivier and Albin. They will be 1 year-old in November.

When we first got them, I was pretty sure they had URIs. The vet was too. They were put onto Baytril for a few weeks, and they didn't improve. And then Doxy and Baytril, and they didn't improve. We keep trying and trying but it seemed as though they had chronic URIs. So the vet recommended to keep them on Baytril all their lives. (Not necessarily Baytril AND Doxy unless we think they needed it, mainly because they would not go near the stuff... too sticky, and thick, and you they'd know you put it in something. Baytril seemed to stablize them, so we stuck to it.)

Within the last month or so, they have gotten so much worse. From the high-pitched congested squeaky noises and occasional sneezes (that became normal to us), to very very loud, chesty and low-pitched sounds... and much more sneezing. If that's too vague, then I'll try and upload a video for you guys later on.

At first we put it down to it being winter, but Spring has been here for a couple weeks now, and they seem to be getting worse everyday. Especially Albin. (Who is more timid, and also quite overweight. Significantly more than Olivier. *Which I am working on*) He also seems rather uphappy.......

Is this normal with URIs? Because they're getting older it's becoming worse? Or should they still be stable?

We're taking them to the vet again next week... but I really don't know what to say besides "Help!" ... I mean, WHAT can we do? Apart from adding Doxy to the mix again? (Which we'll definitely do if the vet/we think it's best and there is no alternative. Although, like I said, with the Baytril it never seemed to do anything spectacular... and it was a challenge getting them to consume it. But that's a small, easily solved problem in the big picture here.)

I am worried. Any constructuive advice, suggestions, input, etc, is highly appreciate.

P.S. If anyone also remember the incident with Albin's eye... in case you were wondering, it healed up amazingly. He losta bit of fluid, so the eye is now slightly smaller than the other one, but it is perfect besides that. The vet was just as stunned as us.

 

[jorats]

Hi!! I sure do remember you and your boys.
So they never let up with the URI. That's a shame... I would ask the vet if you can add Zithromax to the Baytril. If the vet won't then the best you can do is add the Doxy.

 

[la_marée_haute]

Thanks Jo.

It is a shame. You think you're going to get the best by going to a breeder... lol.

I remember you suggested that to me a while back... but my vet said she'd have to get it in. I think it's certainly worth a shot. Thank you again. And it's flattering that you remembered us! I'll definitely be posting a whole bunch of photos for their birthday.

 

[Debbie]

I'm sorry to hear your boys aren't feeling any better. Although they can grow resistant to meds over time, the fact that they may not have gotten better on them, makes me wonder if there's another problem. Wet, chesty sounds can also be from heart issues. Especially when there's extra fluid around the heart and lungs. Heart issues can often be harder for vets to detect, especially if the rat also has harsh lung sounds. If you see an exotic specialist that knows rats very well, he/she should be able to listen to their heart and tell you if there's a murmur or other heart issue.

Even a short 3 day course of lasix can often tell you a lot. Lasix works fast, so if you are able to give that a try and your boys start to feel better and sound less wet...that can help a lot. Lasix helps with the extra fluid.

We have two girls who are a little over a year old. Both were snorky from babies. We ran the gambit of antibiotics...but our vet (a newer one at our clinic who we just ADORE) listened to both girls about a month ago. One has a murmur, the other has a serious heart issue (triple cadence)...both were put on Enalapril and lasix.....within a week, Stella (who had snorked every day of her life) stopped snorking! Both girls are feeling much better. Of course we can't clear up the heart issue and there's always a chance they might not live to be too old (sadly, 4 of their brothers who live in other rescue homes, have all died of CHF already), we have them on the best possible meds that might help them live as healthy as they can be.

I personally am a huge advocate for having their hearts listened to. Heart issues in rats are very common and often go undiagnosed. When antibiotics alone are not working.....it would (IMHO) tell me there's something else going on.

Best wishes for you boys.

 

[la_marée_haute]

Thank you for that. I'll have the vet check for heart issues as well.

Although I live in regional NSW, Australia. No exotic specialists around here.

I also forgot to mention that recently, Albin has been breathing very heavily/rapidly when he's sleeping/resting.

 

[SQ]

My vet gives me a perscription for zithromax and I get it filled at the (human) drug store.

You might want to have xrays done to see how much lung damanage they have and also their hearts. If they have fluid in their lungs, lasix will help that symptom.

When I have had rats that have not responded to the different combos of antibiotics tried, we found that they had heart problems and they did better once they were treated for that.

 

[la_marée_haute]

Thank you so much.

Just as luck would have it, I'm sick today and the ratties have an appointment. Lol. Thankfully my mum has opted to take them. I've actually emailed her your wonderful advice, guys, if that's alright. I was going to write notes... but I started doing it when I realised there was going to be an infinite amount of bullet points, lol. So with the email, I'll be having an in-depth discussion with my mum when she comes home. She is just as involved with the boys as I (and the vet we're seeing is the only vet that has ever seen our rats, so she's aware of the whole she-bang) so I think things will go well and the visit will be a constructive one, despite me not physically being there.

Send good vibes!

 

[jorats]

That's wonderful for you and your mom to be together in caring for the rats.
Lots and lots of luck for your mom and the boys.

 

[mamarat]

Good luck at the vet.

 

[la_marée_haute]

Thanks guys. They just left. I'll update soon.

 

[la_marée_haute]

Okay, well our vet has given us Zithromax which we're trying w/ the Baytril for a couple weeks.

Apparently she got another vet to check their hearts as well for a second opinion, and "couldn't find anything". Mind you, this was just with a stethescope (sp? lol)... and with all of the fluid, I don't exactly see how they would have been to find anything that way anyway, but I wasn't there so I couldn't really have a debate with the two vets. And I'm no expert. It just sounded like a dodgy way to check to me.

She was also just generally very skeptical about giving them Lasix or anything for their hearts for now, until we rule out a URI for sure.

She mentioned that they're supposed to be "very skinny" if they have heart problems, too. Is that really a logical diagnosis? I dunno...

Anyway, all of that aside, we'll give the Zithro a go, and then if they still aren't improving I'll push on with it and find a way to check if they have heart problems for sure. I know when to go with my gut instincts, and when to leave it to the professionals. In this case I'm not completely satisfied with the professional opinion JUST yet.

 

[jorats]

Giving Zithro a try is great, at least you have that.
A very experienced vet can hear the difference in the heart beat, my vet can but many vets can't. My vet also doesn't like prescribing lasix either, she has to be totally convinced that it's a heart problem. In all our rats here, we've only had 3 with heart disease. One of them was a very big rat. It was water retention due to the heart failure.
At least you can go back to your vet if the Zithro doesn't work and tell them it's time to try the heart meds. It's important to some vet to have a history with their patients and have tried other methods before trying something different.