8604/2018/2014

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J

Jherek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
216
Location
KW Ontario
:panic: It's nearly 4:30AM so god knows I'm probably just missing something here. I was just browsing Kim's Ark and noticed this:

The 8604 has soy as the main ingredient which is thought to aid in preventing cancer. It also contains meat and molasses. This is the one with higher protein which is highly recommended for nursing moms and young rats but can be used long term for males and females.
Due to the protein scare, many people feed the 2018 as the maintenance diet.
Also, please keep in mind that the 20- diets are not only the veggie ones, they do NOT have soy up there as the main ingredient. The 80-diets do.
PLEASE NOTE!!! We do not recommend the 2014 for rats unless they are overweight or have protein sensitivity. This diet is not for healthy rats.
Click to expand...

I'm completely confused. Firstly, I thought soy contained phyto-oestrogen and would therefore not only NOT help prevent cancer in rats, but perhaps even cause it? I know there's been a ton of talk about it causing cancer in people. Why is it thought to prevent it according to this?

Also, I thought 2014 was the ideal diet? Why would it not be for healthy rats? I thought higher protein was being linked to tumours and that THIS diet was ideal for healthy rats?

Basically, the whole thing contradicts everything I've read so far, but I've seen this site recommended numerous times here so I'm kind of confused. :stickpoke: :panic:
 
Basically everyone is different, and so are their opinions, and frankly, I imagine every rat could be different too. Alot of people feed 2014 and get good results, others don't...I started off feeding 2018, reordered recently and typed 2014 by mistake, the girls have had it for two weeks, and I personally do not like it for them. My biggest chubalub, Wilomena, has slimmed down, but to -me- it doesn't look like a healthy weight on her, and all of their coats have seemed kind of shabby lately, and generally dull looking. I'm waiting on my next order of 2018 to come in the mail so I can switch them back and hopefully get them back to how they were...But thats just me, personally.

I know Jo feeds 2014 with amazing results, and she's got an amazing resume when it comes to rat experience, and there's a few other food discussion posts where she details her reasons for choosing the 2014.



Its kind of like....I don't know how to put it so it would make sense....Say you're trying to lose weight, you join weight watchers and start eating all these weight watchers brand foods. They're recommended for weight loss. Then there's the woman who already -is- a healthy weight, and she buys it because it maintains her weight. You may lose the weight and then switch back to other foods and maintain that weight well, but she's perfectly content and healthy eating her weight watchers foods, so why change a good thing?
 
Some people like the 2018, some like the 2014...
As for the soy in foods... it's good if you don't have a spayed rat, it should help in some small way prevent mammary tumours. It's not full proof though. The phyto-estrogen from the food will reach the estrogen receptors in the body before the natural estrogen, and due to it's decrease in estrogen, there's less estrogen therefore a smaller risk to mammary tumours and pituitary tumours. But again, this is not full proof. All my rats are spayed, therefore no more natural estrogen so if I add soy to their diet, I'm actually adding estrogen to their bodies therefore increasing the risk of mammary tumours.
 
Iiiinteresting, thanks for all the info. :)

By the way, I wasn't trying to insult or start anything- I just noticed contradictions from what I had otherwise heard and like anyone else, want to feed the best to my girls.
 
Well, I really cant choose between any of the formulas because I'm kinda confuesed of whats best. So, I feed 8604 and 2014. They get more of 2014 than they do 8604 because I do trust Jorats about the whole 2014 being better thing. They also get Regal Rat and fruits and veggies. :)
 
can you tell me how much i should be feeding my girls, we have six, I just started feeding them the 2018. It seems to go pretty fast, they really like it. When given the choice, pet store block versus 2018. they grab the 2018 hide it and come back for more. When i clean the cage, everything is gone, no food to be found anywhere. I usually feed them in the evening when the kids get home from school. Just not sure how much to be giving them. Our first girl, Pumpkin, RIP, died with huge tumors. At that time I was feeding only pet store block, veggies and fruit and the kids gave lots of treats.....we put a end to the sugary treats. I guess i should be supplimenting their diet with other food other than fresh veggies and block? They seem to be growing big pretty fast. thanks jul
 
Blocks and fresh veggies is really all the rats need. You have to be careful thought because you don't want a dramatic weight loss. I would free feed the blocks unless they were really getting obese, then I would cut down to 3 blocks each a day.
 
I read a study once on soy, the phytoestrogens don't actually cause cancer studies show it prevents it.

EDIT
Soy contains phytoestrogens, structurally similar to human estrogen, but physiologically delivering extremely weak estrogenic effects. Phytoestrogens compete with human estrogen for binding to estrogen receptors. The presence of phyoestrogens results in an overall reduction in estrogenic activity, which is consistant with reduced rats of hormone-dependant cancers seen in populations that consume significant amounts of soy products. Therefore, soy consumption would be anticipated to promote health and likely contribute to an overall reduction of hormone-dependent cancer risk. In addition to these benefits, soy consumption is associated with reduced cardiovascular disease risk.

Now this was in a letter to the editor.
 
Yes, but spayed rats without a natural source of estrogen don't benefit from adding phyto-estrogen to their diet. It's counterproductive but those with unspayed rats would be beneficial.
 

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