Velo's Intro Thread [Advice pls?]

Fins us on Amazon
Advertise with us
Shop with us on Ebay
The Rat Shack Forum

Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Also the first part gets incredibly dull and consists a lot of me talking to the girls. I tried to talk loud enough when I was trying to explain what I was seeing since the camera/phone didn't get everything so hopefully it's hear-able. You could skip to like the second half to see most of the interaction.
 
Seeing the whole thing is better for me because I can see his behaviour and the girls behaviour prior to him charging.
First of all, can I just say how much I love that guy!
Obviously treats are not working, he's not interested in treats but i know what he does like, your attention and climbing on you. So now, what you should try is Yes! and let him climb your arm. Hug and cuddle and put back down.
When he does go for the girl, you say NO and scoop him up, no petting and displace him to another spot. Not too far, you don't want him charging back. So what I'm seeing, he's getting picked up a lot with a NO and that's what he wants. So we are reinforcing the wrong behaviour.
How many consecutive intros is this? It might be time to let him wrap and see how he does it. I need to see if he opens his mouth and settles his teeth on the girl or if he keeps his head up high. Head up high means, I'm looking for comfort.
Your girls like him a lot. Rizza likes him but he's not allowed to touch her which she is getting across but he's not taking the hint. So this could be a matter of Rizza accepting him or him accepting her demands.

Your rats are absolutely darlings!
 
Sorry for all the replies, I'm watching and replying. lol

But... I wonder if him wrapping the girls is like him climbing you. Maybe he's just looking for comfort? Cause he either goes for a girl or he goes for you.
 
All 3 girls are spayed and Rocky is neutered. ^_^

Ah man I felt like that whole thing was a horrible mess.. I'm glad it seems like you don't think so.
I agree on the cuddle for reinforcement.. I pondered about that in the video.
Okay so for NO it's okay if I pick him up but no petting and no body hug?

This (last night) is the 8th consecutive intro. They've had more than that too, before the 11 day break we took from intros (Probably like 20+).

He doesn't lift his head up when he wraps them. I've let the wrap run "full course" a few times. He kinda shoves his head into them, not sure about anything with his teeth/mouth as I cannot see those when he does it. He tightens up around them as it goes. Eventually he lets go (usually the girls let him do it and don't move, but in the first video you'll see Theia was trying to get away) and he waits for the girl to walk/run away... but sometimes no body moves and then we get a rat ball or boxing stance.

I can try to get the whole thing on video, we'll just have to catch it in-frame because I would want to have my hands free if it escalated. It's very high stress!

They do like him, I feel like they just completely accept him.. He's just got to get the message and accept them back! Rizzy has definitely started to protest him touching her, she used to let him but that's stopped after the last fight/owwie. I hate for him to be alone, he really loves attention.

Haha honestly I have NO clue with the wrapping... I thought it was sweet at first but I also thought he'd stop after a few times. And since the girls seem to be getting fed up with it I'm not sure if they understand it either?
I'm gonna look, I noted the first time he wrapped somewhere.. Need to think about when he started doing it.

I used to put this cat scratch post in there for them to mess with. It makes a triangle-shaped open hut type area. The girls would cuddle up there and he would insert himself into the pile with them and try to wrap around them in that too.
 
Ok, so these intros are 8 days. When you take a break, those other times don't count anymore. But still at 8 days, we should be able to trust him and at some point we have to let them sort it out.
If I can just see close enough what he does... Don't add anything yet to the intro. That will be our next step.
When it's a NO, you scoop him so hands under him, no petting, no cuddling and hardly off the ground, so you will need to stay bend over, just simply move him over a bit.
When it's a YES! let him climb you, cuddle cuddle and put back down with lots of petting.
 
I'm just nervous about the "sort it out" because the last time I did that, Rizzy got the armpit cut.

I will try to get the whole wrapping process recorded, it's hard to see exactly what he is doing, even in person. It didn't used to bother me much, but then I noticed his paws were pressed into them enough that the fur/skin would have an indent.. So I knew he was like squeezing or pressing. That and the Rizzy cut which was where he was squeezing/wrapping/pressing her (which really maybe didn't happen from that wrap but the rat-ball or maybe was an accident but the potential of 'zigging instead of zagging' seems to go up in a wrap?)
So the plan is: Get a full wrap on video first; When he wraps after that, NO scoop move; When he doesn't wrap, YES cuddle pet etc ?
 
Get one wrap on video, and then don't allow any more wraps to happen and Yes for the turn away.

And ya, the whole zigged/zagged thing is always from a wrap or variation of a wrap. A full wrap will result in a armpit gash while a mount/half wrap will result in a neck gash.
 
Bad news: I couldn't get a proper video of a wrap

Good news: because rocky didn't do one!!!!

Anyways the video(s) show better than I can explain. I will get them up either shortly or tomorrow. The files are huge so it's slow..
 
I managed to carry another phone/camera during the whole thing, so there are two videos. They are the same thing, one is the close up view, the other is the view from the same spot as the other videos. The second video is not very useful, but I put it up anyways.

http://youtu.be/hGlKJ5DJKKA
The close up view, might want to check it out in full screen as it's a smaller view.

http://youtu.be/bQ3Ib9qF9so
Other/out view. Again they are the same intro.
In this video, the other video starts at 3:07 (if that makes sense and you want to try to watch both at the same time?). Just supplemental.. The audio should be better on the first as the microphone is closer.

Pretty happy about it!
 
Last edited:
Also Youtube is in the process of rotating the first video, so it will fit in the screen correctly. I think it might take a while, so the "wrongly flipped" version will show for now... Kind of a pain to watch but hopefully Youtube fixes it easily.

EDIT
I found a way to flip the video and re-uploaded it. I changed the link to the flipped version. ^_^
 
Last edited:
Well, that was really great. Having the two views was really good. I had both running and when Rocky would head to the corner, I'd switch views. lol Awesome.
First of all, you are doing great. Your voice is calm and very loving.
The soft wrap was good. He changed his mind during it so that's great.
I've also noticed that the girls take comfort in each other in the corner and he takes comfort in you. Our goal is to get him to take comfort in the pile of girls in the corner. But in this intro session, he's actually doing a lot of avoidance which is what you've been teaching him. It's what we wanted at first.
Oh when he went to her belly or to be more accurate, her vagina, he was doing one of two things, gathering information or waiting to be groomed. I personally would not have broken that up. The girls soft protests should be his "back off" signal. Let's see if it works, next time let him be. If it's longer than 10 seconds and he's not "hearing" her protest, then intervene.
You are doing great by the way. You are rewarding him well when it's time.

On a side note, I wonder if Rizza has a reaction to the yogis. She did two big stretches after it and even refused one near the end.

This was a great video. Rocky is learning and doing so much better. And he's so smart. He tells you when he's done and wants to go home. What an amazing boy.
Now, your next intro... you can do this all over again and reinforce the proper behaviour or you can add a challenge by adding a hidey home like a two entrance box or igloo or whatever.
 
I was so happy last night. I was kind of dumbfounded too, totally blown away that he acted so differently (re:wrapping). Chasing them around while holding the camera is a bit dizzying though. XD

Things are starting to click for me... If I talk sweet to him when he is by the girls, I think it makes him WANT to be nice. I've said it before - I think I've been the biggest "problem" in the intros. I'm finally un-learning the bad behaviors and learning some new good ones (Thanks to you!)

"But in this intro session, he's actually doing a lot of avoidance which is what you've been teaching him. It's what we wanted at first."
So how do I un-teach avoidance and re-teach comfort?

I did think he looked like he wanted to be groomed when he went under Pika, but these things are new to me. A ten second rule sounds like a good plan though. I will do that from now on!

Hm wow interesting thought with the Yogis. Honestly, the girls aren't big fans of Yogis, Rocky is. The girls would pick a Crispix or puff over a yogi. I'll just stop giving them to her, she won't care. I'll bring puffs in to intros, got a new flavor they love. That stretch was wild, never seen her do that before.

Rocky is smart, so smart. Just like he knows EXACTLY where to go on my back so I can't reach him and take him off of me. -_-;
Do you think it's okay I usually keep intros going for 5-10 minutes after he says he's done? He usually does it at the 20 minute mark, and I tend to want to go a bit longer... Speaking of, I was hoping to try for an hour (maybe on Sunday) is it okay to keep him going or should I wait on that?

How do I "reinforce the proper behavior"? Am I not reinforcing when he doesn't wrap, etc anymore? Just when he goes up and sits next to them? I think we will try to replicate last night tonight. If it goes well I will try a hidey house tomorrow... I do have one that neither party has spent much time with. I know for a fact that the girls will go straight in it and stay there most of the time lol!
 
You are will un-teach avoidance by no longer redirecting him when he goes near them.
Just because Rocky tells you he's done, you are the one who decides, now unless he was in severe distress or an extremely shy or scared rat, then we would end it when he asks but because he's pretty easy going, you decide how long you want it. An hour is just fine. I always do my intros an hour long.
I would now stop reinforcing his avoidance or turning away from them. He already knows that it's a good thing. But now, when he goes to them, and you do that sweet talk, that's reinforcing his good behaviour while being with them.
Our energies during intros is so important.
For example... my sister is very nervous in public and she has a very reactive dog. So I told her that when we meet up with people, you treat Roxie and tell her look friends... nice friends. And she asked me what does the words do for Roxie, I said the words are for you. And it's true, if you say sweet things and happy things, it calms your energy and makes you feel a lot better. Same with rats. :)
When you do put a hidey home, make sure it's open in two spots. There needs to be an entrance and an escape hatch. lol
 
Ok, I figured longer was fine... I'd like to see how things go when he gets past the 20 minute "I'm done" mark so I will try that out on Sunday

So basically do the reinforcing I was doing last night when they were all in the corner. Seems easy enough! I just hope it's not a fluke that he wasn't wrapping last night! X;

You're right about the energy. I started talking like that for me, not for Rocky. I'm glad it helps everyone overall.

I've got this I plan for using as a hidey house:

There is a big opening on both sides ^_^

I will try that Saturday. That's cage cleaning day, so they go in play cages that are right next to each other and get some good visual/smell interaction for about 3 hours so it should be a good day for it.
 
Wow what an insane night.
The intro went for about an hour and resulted in 4 videos, all of which include some seriously bad videography. I'm gonna try and fix them up before I upload them, But simply getting them off my phone takes hours anyway so I'll put them up tomorrow.

Basically rocky was the king of wrapping for the first 5-10 minutes. After that I struggled to get him to interact with the girls. In the end I do think they got some good quality time in though! There was a final 15 minutes or so that didn't even get recorded because rizzy managed to turn a camera off and the other one could only record for so long. PHEW what a night
 
I love that hidey house, my rats have one too.

So tonight... with all the wrapping, did you allow it? Did you get one on video? I can't wait to see it! But it will have to wait till Sunday for me because I'm off tomorrow on a road trip to pick up my new baby boys!!
 
No I didn't really allow it. Which in the end I think was right because I think he realized I didn't want him to do it. I might have some footage of the wrap, nothing ~spectacular~
I was having video issues tonight lol!

Awww I'm so excited for you to go get your baby boys! I hope you have a safe and fun trip!!!
 

Latest posts

Back
Top