Telazol for neuters?

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Sonja

Sonja

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
69
Location
Wyoming
We brought our two new boys (6 weeks) and girls (9 weeks) in to be neutered/spayed today, and our vet insisted on using SQ Telazol for the sedative. She said she was highly uncomfortable using isoflurane as an anesthetic because they come out of it so quickly, and they don't have the correct hardware... She gave them the injection around 10 this morning, and it's 2pm and they still aren't "out" of the anesthesia state yet. What point should I start worrying about them? They're keeping them at the vet's office until they come 100% out of it, so the vets can monitor them and make sure nothing is going wrong.

With the neuters, they also said they didn't want to glue or suture the incision shut due to how small it is. Is this normal? This is my first neuter/spay, and they're just so little (the boys are only 2oz each!), and I'm really worried about it. This vet is much better than our last, but I can't help but freak out - I don't know if any of this is standard for a neuter! Any advice from those who do neuters/spays frequently? :X
 
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We LIKE the isoflurane because the animal DOES come out of the anaesthetic quickly. Injectable anaesthetic takes a long time to wear off. It's important during this time to keep them warm but not too warm. There's not really anything you can do but wait. I hope they make out OK.
 
Thank you for the speedy reply Joanne. I tried asking about the isoflurane as an anesthetic, but they injected the Telazol as I was asking. I'm worried sick as it's 3:30 now and they're still not up.
 
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Sonja said:
Thank you for the speedy reply Joanne. I tried asking about the isoflurane as an anesthetic, but they injected the Telazon as I was asking. I'm worried sick as it's 3:30 now and they're still not up.
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When they use high doses they have a very long recovery time (from what I am reading)...keep them warm as the body temp will drop after surgery.

Are they breathing normally?

Next, how big are the neuter incisions? Can you get us pics of what they did and we can tell you what you need to do if anything?

Did they send you home with oral pain medication? Did they inject a pain medication during or after the surgery? Normally vets give a metacam injection that can last up to 24 hours post-op.

2 oz? Really? That's 57 grams, how OLD are your boys? Are they like 3 weeks old??
 
6 weeks, Lilspaz. :) Caboose weighed in at 2.25oz, and Vega at 2.5. The girls are 8-9 weeks, and weighed in with Winry at 6oz, and Sinclair at 5.5oz. And the good news is that they called at 4 and told us to come pick them up. Winry, the girl that went in for the spay last, is still out of it, but she got the Telazol almost an hour later than all the others.

The incisions on the boys look to be about 1/4" wide, from what I can see, and they said that the Telazol they use has a 24-hour pain medication with it. The girls' incisions look to be about 1". I could take them out and measure right now since they're floppy, but I'm worried about handling them more than necessary. The girls' incisions are closed with internal sutures, fairly sure they're the kind that dissolve, because when I asked about check-ups and post-op care, they said they think we're well equipped to care for them, and that they don't anticipate any needed aftercare.

The boys, or at least Caboose, is up and moving around. We put him back in his holding cage (the one we're using until he's sterile and can go in with his sister), it's a medium-sized hamster cage with powder-coated wires and one level with a very wide, textured (but soft!) ramp. He's buzzing around and drinking water from an in-set bowl (he's still a bit too loopy to figure out the bottle), and Vega is in the little igloo still dozing. At random intervals all 4 of them (boys and girls) seem to suck in their sides (it's scary!) and twist to the side, but they don't hold this position for long, 10-15 seconds at most. We've switched both boys and girl's cages to fleece-bottomed. We've been keeping them on aspen in their normal cages for ease of cleaning, but I'm worried it'll bother the incisions and sore bodies.

I really don't know much about aftercare, though, and the vet didn't have much information. What should we be feeding them? Should they just have their normal blocks available, or should they have the sick-rat mush of rice baby cereal and crushed blocks soaked in ensure or water? What's normal for after-care on a neuter or spay? X.x
 
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I was able to snap a picture of Caboose. His back end (and vega's whole body) are soaked in water, because the first thing they did upon getting home was actually hop IN their water bowl, like a mini bath. They scrambled out pretty fast, but they definitely soaked themselves, little brats! They'll bounce around extremely hyperactive for 1-2 minutes at a time, then they'll just crash like little narcoleptics and fall asleep right where they are, nose-down into the fleece.

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Winry's the only one who worries me. She's alright 60% of the time, but 40% of the time since we got her home she's been stretching and almost rolling around. She got the anesthesia late enough that I think she's just slowly coming out of it now, but she does seem to enjoy sleeping on her back like this. All 4 of them are room-temperature on the extremities and normal-body warm when I press the back of a finger to their skin. I still haven't gotten Winry drinking anything, but the other 3 seem to grudgingly take water.
 
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When Winny is stretching is she sucking her sides in? If so this is what we call owie stretches and it means she is in pain. Hope the recover soon.
 
She does sometimes, yes. I'll see if I can snag a picture of that too. She seems to be in and out of the tissue box we put in the cage as a little bed, but when she's not in there she'll do it every few minutes. It's almost scary how much her sides suck in, I can see her spine very clearly when she does it.
 
Sonja said:
She does sometimes, yes. I'll see if I can snag a picture of that too. She seems to be in and out of the tissue box we put in the cage as a little bed, but when she's not in there she'll do it every few minutes. It's almost scary how much her sides suck in, I can see her spine very clearly when she does it.
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She is in pain. You need to get her pain medication Its one of the worse things to witness in my opinion
 
Oh no. :c Are there any safe OTC meds I can give them for pain, or do I have to call the vet for something like metacam? Winry hasn't done the stretch in quite some time that I've seen, she seems to have fallen asleep. Caboose kept stretching, although he calmed down when I held him in my hand. Poor bub, he licked my fingers, took some water from a syringe, and passed out. I've got him in a fleece "sling" around my neck right now and he stretches every time I put him down, but calms and stops stretching when I've got him. Could being cold cause the pain? The room itself is pretty warm (sitting between 74-76 degrees) but I can add a warm water bottle to each cage if it'll help.


Edit: I think it's fair to mention that as of right now, what I have in the house for rat supplement things, is their normal food of Oxbow Regal Rat (for the adults), Mazuri lab blocks (for the babies), ensure, rice baby cereal, soy infant formula (powdered), and pedialyte. I can make things like brown rice or eggs, but I'm not sure about baby's requirements for protein and such.
 
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A source of heat such as a warm/hot water bottle wrapped in layers of fleece, that they can move closer to or away from is a good idea - so they need to be capable of moving away and have the room to do so ... otherwise it could harm them.
Rats can not control their body temp for 24 hrs after surgery.

As Joanne wrote "We LIKE the isoflurane because the animal DOES come out of the anaesthetic quickly."
This is what makes it safe to use with rats. If something starts to go wrong, the vet can immediately bring them out of it.

Injectable anaesthetic is very dangerous to use with animals, especially small animals like rats - it kills.

Glad they seem to be coming out of it. Hope they will be ok

There is a thread in the reference section on things to discuss with your vet before surgery that is usefully to read.
 
Awww when they owwie stretch like that they aren't just uncomfortable (which would just be shifting and looking unhappy and puffy furred) but in real pain,

RUN to the drug store and pick up infant liquid ibuprofen, and we'll give you a dose for your babies...

Give us all the weights...
 
I'll go get some right now. Weights are as follows:

Caboose: 2.25oz
Vega: 2.5-2.75oz (he was wiggly on the scale)
Sinclair: 4.5oz
Winry: 5.5oz
 
I use the range of 10-30 mg/kg for ibu, I am going to dose your bubs at 25 mg/kg just to catch up with the pain. You give ibu every 4-6 hours if you can. If you have to do every 8 hours so be it.

Caboose: 2.25oz = 64 g - .04cc
Vega: 2.5-2.75oz (he was wiggly on the scale)= 78 g - .05 cc
Sinclair: 4.5oz - 128 g - .08 cc
Winry: 5.5oz - 156 g - .1 cc
 
For the future, signs of pain are shifting and unable to rest comfortably, with a neuter, moving so the incision doesn't touch anything, lying on their side, or even pressing the incision site to the ground, puffed up fur, just looking unhappy overall. Owwie stretches are the next step up with pain, when its graduated from discomfort.

After an e-spay, don't worry Aura got pain meds and was fine within 20 mins

Owwwweeeeee.jpg~original


Goliath after his neuter, saw owwie, gave pain meds. The metacam injections often wear off before 24 hours no matter what the vet says so its best to give them pain meds before they do.

goli-owwiestretchapr11.jpg~original
 
Their normal food is fine. You just want to make sure that they are eating and drinking after they recover from the anaesthetic. Keep them warm for at least 24 hours. A hot water bottle is good as long as they can get away from it if they are too hot. If the boys that just got neutered are going in with the girls that just got spayed, then you don't have to keep them separate.
Metacam would be good to give for a few days. Those are 'owie' stretches.
 
We just dosed all 4 with the ibu. Tomorrow morning first thing I'll be calling the vet for pain meds - what should we ask for? Knowing this vet, she'll want to do an injection med. Is metacam safe to use orally?
 
Ibuprofen will work excellently for tonight. You may want to phone your vet tomorrow for some meloxicam just for the sake of not having to dose as often.

If she is still in a lot of pain tomorrow you can also ask for some Tramadol. It can be given while giving nsaids too.
 
Sonja said:
We just dosed all 4 with the ibu. Tomorrow morning first thing I'll be calling the vet for pain meds - what should we ask for? Knowing this vet, she'll want to do an injection med. Is metacam safe to use orally?
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Lol guess we were typing at the same time. :) You should see them relax quite a bit in 20-30minutes
 

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