Here come the R.I.B.! Meet Agent J and Agent K.
- Thread starter SqueakingJellybean
- Start date
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jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
Awww, cuddling rats, now that makes our heart melt.
SqueakingJellybean
Mission Control -- All is ratness
So it looks like the new cage is not helping as much as we had hoped.. Agent J is still bullying Clint; Clint is still humping J. We've pulled the ramp up to separate them, giving them playtime together on the bed and lap-time together. They mostly behave when out on a lap or shoulders, but they're still mostly little jerks to each other on the bed. THey were behaving well enough to get some in-cage time together for a few hours, but then J went back to stealing Clint's food and pushing him around, and Clint went back to trying to hump his brother.
Last night, they started poking at each other through the closed-off ramp. Clint was squeaking furiously (but Clint squeaks at everything) but is unharmed. I went to take them out together this morning, and Clint lost his mind hen he saw J, trying to jump out of my hands.
They're nearly a year old. Would neutering help at this point? Is it a better idea to wait until puberty has passed and then try re-introductions? Would adding additional ratboys be helpful to break up the dynamic? We know they're social creatures and don't want to deprive them of that contact, but when Clint is too terrified to come down from his ball to drink, that's not healthy either.
Last night, they started poking at each other through the closed-off ramp. Clint was squeaking furiously (but Clint squeaks at everything) but is unharmed. I went to take them out together this morning, and Clint lost his mind hen he saw J, trying to jump out of my hands.
They're nearly a year old. Would neutering help at this point? Is it a better idea to wait until puberty has passed and then try re-introductions? Would adding additional ratboys be helpful to break up the dynamic? We know they're social creatures and don't want to deprive them of that contact, but when Clint is too terrified to come down from his ball to drink, that's not healthy either.
Joanne
Well-Known Member
Neuter, neuter, neuter!!!
Yeah, I would agree with Joanne. And you are right...when Clint is too scared to even get to his water, that is not a fun or healthy thing for him. 
Our boy Maximus used to bully and scare his brother Achilles. When it got to a point where we could see it was not just two boy rats playing or scrapping with each other but that Achilles was genuinely becoming fearful, that was it. Neuter time. I hated seeing one of my babies being scared of his brother, the poor thing.
I also got advice from the kind people here on the forum that Maximus had to get neutered. We had never had a ratty of ours neutered before and it was scary for us, but lo and behold, our awesome small animal vet did a perfect neuter on Maxie, and he was only a bit sore on the afternoon after his neuter and recovered very quickly, no problems.
Over the next week or so, we saw the gradual and happy change..he and his brother got along wonderfully, and no more bullying. They were good friends forever after.
We are so glad we had it done. I guess in your case though, since Clint is also having his own issues with humping on his brother, you might be looking at two neuters.
Our boy Maximus used to bully and scare his brother Achilles. When it got to a point where we could see it was not just two boy rats playing or scrapping with each other but that Achilles was genuinely becoming fearful, that was it. Neuter time. I hated seeing one of my babies being scared of his brother, the poor thing.
I also got advice from the kind people here on the forum that Maximus had to get neutered. We had never had a ratty of ours neutered before and it was scary for us, but lo and behold, our awesome small animal vet did a perfect neuter on Maxie, and he was only a bit sore on the afternoon after his neuter and recovered very quickly, no problems.
Over the next week or so, we saw the gradual and happy change..he and his brother got along wonderfully, and no more bullying. They were good friends forever after.
We are so glad we had it done. I guess in your case though, since Clint is also having his own issues with humping on his brother, you might be looking at two neuters.
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SqueakingJellybean
Mission Control -- All is ratness
Yeah, we're definitely looking at having them both snipped. I've got a job interview tomorrow, after which I'll call the vet for a quote. When we get it done will likely depend on whether or not I get that job, but we'll be looking at Octoberish, all things being equal.
Sometimes they're good to each other. Those times no longer outweigh the times when they're being little fuzzy jerks. I swear, we should have named them Sam and Dean.
Sometimes they're good to each other. Those times no longer outweigh the times when they're being little fuzzy jerks. I swear, we should have named them Sam and Dean.
SqueakingJellybean
Mission Control -- All is ratness
The R.I.B are going in for "debriefing" next Monday.
Do you think it will be safe to put them together while they heal? I was thinking it might give them some time to readjust to each other while they're not feeling like fighting.
Do you think it will be safe to put them together while they heal? I was thinking it might give them some time to readjust to each other while they're not feeling like fighting.
Joanne
Well-Known Member
On one hand, they will both be sore and less willing to scrap. On the other hand, their hormone levels will still be high, so they will be more inclined to scrap...
I would probably give them a while apart, just in case.
I would probably give them a while apart, just in case.
SqueakingJellybean
Mission Control -- All is ratness
The R.I.B. are being debriefed as we speak (as we squeak?). I just wish I could have explained to them that it's a temporary thing, I haven't abandoned them, and will bring them home tomorrow. Taking this time to wash their hammocks and ramp covers, change their cage, and distract myself from fretting. There will be updates when the boys get home. In the meantime, have a picture of Clint on my husband's head:
And the boys in their hammock, pre-CN:
And the boys in their hammock, pre-CN:
SqueakingJellybean
Mission Control -- All is ratness
The R.I.B. have been successfully debriefed. The surgery went so well that the vet has allowed them to come home tonight. They're groggy, but still up and about some. Here's hoping that they'll be able to live peacefully together once the hormones are out of their systems.
Joanne
Well-Known Member
Yay! Here's for a fast and uneventful recovery.
That is great news! Sounds like they had a smooth and problem free procedure! Get well soon boys!
I LOVED that pic of Clint on Daddy's head. So cute!
Keep us posted on how the boys do, and I feel for you about fretting when they were at the vet's. I know all rat parents wish they could speak ratty so we could tell our rats that all is fine, we know it is scary to be at the vet's and we are not abandoning them.
I LOVED that pic of Clint on Daddy's head. So cute!
Keep us posted on how the boys do, and I feel for you about fretting when they were at the vet's. I know all rat parents wish they could speak ratty so we could tell our rats that all is fine, we know it is scary to be at the vet's and we are not abandoning them.
SqueakingJellybean
Mission Control -- All is ratness
Thanks for the well-wishes. The boys are doing fine this morning, and they got such a treat! Mashed banana with peanut butter (and Metacam). Yum! They don't appear to be in a whole lot of pain, though, as one of them (probably Clint) was running in his wheel a little bit several times during the night. Their appetites have not diminished, they've been drinking regularly, and they're shoving their nestcloth about as per normal.
Agent J wanted to save some of his PB&B&M for later; he had to be convinced that covering squishy food with a heap of cloth is not really the best way to keep it fresh (or off the bedding). He had a little rest, then finished it. Clint is feeling good enough that, while I had the cage door open, he was considering pulling a Spider-Rat move and swinging down from upstairs to visit his brother. There's no grey area with that boy-- he's either fearless or afraid of everything, and it seems to change from moment to moment.
Agent J wanted to save some of his PB&B&M for later; he had to be convinced that covering squishy food with a heap of cloth is not really the best way to keep it fresh (or off the bedding). He had a little rest, then finished it. Clint is feeling good enough that, while I had the cage door open, he was considering pulling a Spider-Rat move and swinging down from upstairs to visit his brother. There's no grey area with that boy-- he's either fearless or afraid of everything, and it seems to change from moment to moment.
SqueakingJellybean
Mission Control -- All is ratness
At the risk of jumping the gun, I just wanted to let folks know that neutering appears to be helping. The boys were out on the bed together yesterday and managed to be social without fighting. Clint only gave one or two minor squeaks; there was no chasing, no humping, no shoving. They did tussle a little bit, but that seemed more friendly than it did before.
They were even better later on in the day when I took them for their follow-up appointment. After Agent J went back into the carrier, examination finished, Clint checked him over and groomed him. Later, when Clint needed a little mid-exam break, J curled up on top of him protectively. They snuggled almost all the way home. We're keeping the reintroduction slow, but if all goes well, they'll be able to live together again in about a week.
They were even better later on in the day when I took them for their follow-up appointment. After Agent J went back into the carrier, examination finished, Clint checked him over and groomed him. Later, when Clint needed a little mid-exam break, J curled up on top of him protectively. They snuggled almost all the way home. We're keeping the reintroduction slow, but if all goes well, they'll be able to live together again in about a week.
Joanne
Well-Known Member
Awesome! :thumbup:
SqueakingJellybean
Mission Control -- All is ratness
The R.I.B. are happily living together again. No rat murder noises have happened. They've spent the better part of the last two days snuggling together, sometimes rolling each other around the cage and grooming each other. We've got the flu (my husband has it full-blown and I'm getting it) so we've not spent as much time with them as usual, but that doesn't seem to matter. They're deliriously happy to be back together.
It looks like they're respecting each other's space, too. Clint eats his treats upstairs, J eats his downstairs. A couple of times they've slept separately, usually in their preferred spots but sometimes in each other's houses. The neuter appears to have worked. Of course, having a ton of hammocks and cozy beds in a cage the size of a fridge doesn't hurt, either. Pics will happen as the opportunity arises.
It looks like they're respecting each other's space, too. Clint eats his treats upstairs, J eats his downstairs. A couple of times they've slept separately, usually in their preferred spots but sometimes in each other's houses. The neuter appears to have worked. Of course, having a ton of hammocks and cozy beds in a cage the size of a fridge doesn't hurt, either. Pics will happen as the opportunity arises.
Joanne
Well-Known Member
Thank goodness for harmony restored!
