Multiple Rat Issues, Need Some Advice.

[GRNDPNDR]

So we have 5 rats, 2 boys (Apollo, and Oreo) and 3 girls (Starbuck, and her babies Beatrice and Squeakers) And we are having some slight issues with most of them.


The big concern here is the boys, Apollo and Starbuck made the babies, and Oreo was introduced after we separated the males/females, to be a buddy for Apollo.

Apollo is a very loving and gentle rat, but Oreo, Oreo is a jerk. Most times they get along fine, Oreo grooms Apollo, they cuddle up together to sleep and generally cohabitate well, except for a few times throughout the day that Oreo will aggressively attack Apollo for no reason to the point that there is a lot of commotion and much squeaking and/or steal his food or treats from him seemingly to just be a jerk. This will last for a good 20 mins or so unless we separate Oreo and put him in time out, or segregate them in some fashion (usually taking Apollo out to hang out with us)


Why is Oreo doing this and is there some way to stop or prevent it?? They live in a rather large 3 level ferret cage, and both of them are probably 6 months old or somewhere around that age but Oreo is a fair bit larger than Apollo.


The other concern is with the girls, namely Starbuck who lives up to her name for those who have watched Battlestar Galactica, and is CONSTANTLY escaping to roam around our apartment and have her own little adventures. She is smaller than her babies and is able to easily squeeze through the bars of the cage.

We swapped cages about a week ago and put the girls in the single level, still very large cage that the boys used to live in, because when they were in the 3 level cage Starbuck managed to chew giant holes in the corners to escape and get into the boys cage, and sometimes the babies would end up there also....... Here's the kicker, the boys took no interest "romantically" in the girls and we still have 5 rats instead of many many more, and now when Starbuck escapes she just roams around like she's Fivel or something.

Starbuck is capable of getting through the bars on both cages, but never did so in the 3 level cage, she just kept chewing out corners.

Why does she want to escape? We bring them out just about everyday and when we do she just wants to get back to the cage, but when we put her back she just wants out again.

Any creative ideas to prevent her from getting out in the future?



We're mostly concerned about the aggression Oreo is showing towards Apollo but some insight on the escaping Starbuck would also be appreciated.

 

[AnnieTessieWinky]

Oreo is trying to be dominant over Apollo. If they cuddle and spend friendly time together, then they probably aren't in danger of seriously harming one another. My two older female rats, Annie and Tessie, do this sort of thing all the time, where one minute they're cuddling and the next they're boxing and squeaking indignantly at each other. I would find an acceptable place to socialize them outside anyone's territory where they can start to form a group scent.

As for the escape artist, duct tape works well for the holes on a temporary basis. But maybe she doesn't get enough time to explore and have fun, and that's why she's always escaping. Let he out to roam in an area where you know you won't lose her, then put different toys in the cage and keep switching them out. Rats are smart and easily bored, so new things to do might make her less motivated to escape to find adventure.

 

[GRNDPNDR]

What kind of toys do rats play with?

 

[jorats]

Are the males and females living in the same room? That could be your issue right there especially since Oreo and Starbucks have done the deed and will ALWAYS seek it. Each time the girls go into heat, this will aggravate and frustrate Oreo. I highly recommend neutering the males or spaying the females and have all of them move in together.
As for Starbucks exploring... when a rat has it in his/her mind to escape, they will no matter what, it's in their nature, their instinct. You need a cage that have very small bars like a Critter Nation.

 

[GRNDPNDR]

Apollo is the daddy, and the one who is NOT aggressive. Oreo has never done the deed but yes they are in the same room. There isn't a feisable way to have them in separate rooms.

Oreo is aggressive to the point that he lunges at our cat when she walks by (one of the young females does this also) and the cat is actually scared of the rats.

 

[jorats]

Oh if it's Oreo, the one that never been in contact with a girl, then I'd say best to get him neutered.

 

[AnnieTessieWinky]

My girls like to play with bird toys that I hang from the ceiling bars of their cage. Anything with bells or ropes they can climb is a guaranteed hit. Also, toilet paper rolls, little bits of cloth they can rip up, and different treats every so often will liven things up. My rats really like saltines and uncooked spaghetti noodles. It won't stop her from trying, my Tessie still tries to escape every once in a while, but I've found that if they have something to do inside the cage they won't want to get out so bad. Also, a better idea for the chewing problem, you might want to try getting a rat cage with a metal bin instead of a plastic one. I just got a new deluxe rat cage with a metal bottom for mine and they love it.

As to the aggression, it really does sound like the little guy is out of control. I've never had a male rat, so I'm no expert on them, but you might consider separating them until a solution can be found. Perhaps neutering the problematic one is the only way to ensure peace.

 

[GRNDPNDR]

Finances at the moment don't really allow me to purchase a different cage, or even head down to the local sheet metal shop to have a new base bent up so neutering also isn't really in the cards.

We give our girls blankets and stuff, and they love to yank it in through the cage and make little nest compartments, rip it up, move it around and all that jazz, but I'm not sure they like bells or loud noises, however I will try hanging some stuff from the top of the cage.

Starbuck is a little weird though, she may be slightly traumatized due to almost being fed to a snake when she was about a month old. She got away with no physical injuries and the snake gave up after he missed her, but no doubt she is fearful of everything.

When she gets out on her own though she loves to roam around and hide places (we know her spots now) and she doesn't so much run from us when we try to catch her as she does seem more like shes playing a game of hide and seek.

I wouldn't even be worried about her getting out if we didn't have a large, curious cat. But I have some kind of aura about me that seems to make my animals act completely differently than one would expect because she is actually scared of the rats. .... She is still a cat though and thousands of years of instincts don't just go away. I would be devastated if Starbuck (or any of them) suffered at the paws of our cat.... I absolutely love her, she is the most adorable, softest rat I have ever seen, and she has this hilarious little personality that the others just don't.

 

[AnnieTessieWinky]

Well, try the ropes to climb on. And I wouldn't worry about the bells being too loud. The bells on bird toys have about the same volume as a tiny jingle bell hot glued onto a kindergarten project. They're just meant to be interesting from the motion and sound, not terrifying. Plus that, it sounds like you have some petty courageous rats.

 

[GRNDPNDR]

So as far as Oreo and Apollo are concerned it seems to have gotten worse since posting this...... not so much aggression-wise but Apollo is basically scared of Oreo and hides under rock/cave thing. He is sleeping by himself on the lower, or bottom level of the cage and if Oreo walks by and brushes against him it startles him a LOT.

He was hiding under his rock and I went to pet him and he spun around, squeaked, and got a little defensive until he realized it was me but he kept hiding.

In these last couple of days though I haven't seen any bad fighting, from Oreos point of view it looked like he was trying to be playful but Apollo is too scared of him now.


Neutering isn't an option at this point as much I would love to do so for Apollos sake, so at this point I'm half considering trying to find someone who could care for Oreo and his aggressive nature. Apollo is such a loving guy that it pains me to see him so scared.

When Oreo does get aggressive we remove Apollo from the cage to let him hang out with us. Lastnight we brought him out and he found a little spot in our blanket to hide in, then he would wander a bit and go back there. We took Oreo out also and when he went to investigate Apollos hiding spot Apollo ran away and wouldn't go back to that spot for a while ,even after Oreo was gone, but Oreo was just being curious this time.


Should we be spending more time with Oreo?? anything other than neutering we can do for him?? He is aggressive to the point that he will lunge at our cat when she walks by the cage, and he stays there staring her down while the cat just looks on, scared of him, wondering what the hell this mean little creature is. She walks cautiously by the cage when she passes it now and if she gets up close to take a peek in Oreo comes from nowhere and gets up in her face which makes her jump backwards.

Often times the cat will roll over to show her belly, and that she is being friendly (obviously rats don't understand this, but we humans do).

So ya I'm a little stuck, and don't like to see Apollo so scared

 

[jorats]

Lunging at the cat is very normal, many rats do that and it does not indicate aggressiveness. You could try a time out cage for Oreo.
You have to keep in mind that Oreo is the one that is more stressed. He is having all these male urges and hormones and he can't act on them. Spending more time with Oreo is a good idea but use a time out cage to "punish" him when he's being a bully. So each time you see Oreo being a bully, pull him out and put him in a tiny empty cage for 10 minutes... no more. Do this each time he's being a bully. But be sure to spend some good times with Oreo as well.

 

[lap rats]

It's really too bad you can't get them neutered. 5-6 months is when they reach social maturity and try to establish their hierarchy. It's good to neuter before this, but any time (before they get too old) would greatly help with aggression!
Not to mention if they can smell the females! Poor boys, how frustrating!
You can't afford to get just Oreo neutered? You won't believe how much better he'll be! Both would be good because then you could keep them all in the same cage, and you won't have that risk of one of the girls getting pregnant again. It's only a matter of time if they're always escaping. But at LEAST Oreo. He'd get to be such a sweet squishy gentle rat!
Getting the girls spayed would also be good for them in the long run, dramaticly reducing their chances of mammary tumours later on. But that won't help with Oreo's aggression. But i guess if you can't get one rat neutered, then never mind 3 spays.
Sad thing is, if you get rid of Oreo, then poor Apollo will be alone, which is very sad and depressing for a rat
My vet only charges 60$ for a neuter. But some other vets in the area charge over 200$! Call around to every single vet you could get to; you might find a good price. And it's so worth it!

Do the girls have a wheel? Mine love wheels because they have so much energy. This could help them not feel the need to escape to get exercise.

 

[GRNDPNDR]

if we did get rid of Oreo, we would get another friend for Apollo, no lonely rats here. Yes the girls have a wheel, they love it..... the boys, not so much lol.

I will call some vets and check pricing but until we are back on two incomes it isn't much of an option.