Rats and euthanasia
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SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Debbie said:
Just wanted to emphasize this point.
Good Karma
Well-Known Member
Having just put a rat to sleep for the first time, i will share my experience here as well.
We used Iso gas to sedate him. How to deliver the iso gas seems different from vet to vet. My vet did it a really clever way: We used a syringe case: the larger syringes come in big plastic cases. One size is a perfect fit over a rats face. We filled the case with cotton and padded the edge so it would be soft on his face. Then we poured the iso gas (in liquid form) into the case.
Since i work at a clinic i was present for the whole procedure. I held him the entire time. Gumby did struggle a little bit with the case on his face, they don't like the smell. I wish the whole thing could have been done without any stress whatsoever, but he only struggled for a few seconds. I just held him tight and tried to stay relaxed so he would be more relaxed. It did not take long to sedate him, less that a minute. We kept the iso gas chamber on his face and my vet chcked him. He was hardly breathing but his heart was still beating.
She gave the injection of euthanol into his side: the needle was on a 30 degree angle and it went into his side, towards he head. We waited a minute and then she listen for his heart. It had stopped.
The whole process took about 5 minutes. I was relieved it went so fast and without complications.
We used Iso gas to sedate him. How to deliver the iso gas seems different from vet to vet. My vet did it a really clever way: We used a syringe case: the larger syringes come in big plastic cases. One size is a perfect fit over a rats face. We filled the case with cotton and padded the edge so it would be soft on his face. Then we poured the iso gas (in liquid form) into the case.
Since i work at a clinic i was present for the whole procedure. I held him the entire time. Gumby did struggle a little bit with the case on his face, they don't like the smell. I wish the whole thing could have been done without any stress whatsoever, but he only struggled for a few seconds. I just held him tight and tried to stay relaxed so he would be more relaxed. It did not take long to sedate him, less that a minute. We kept the iso gas chamber on his face and my vet chcked him. He was hardly breathing but his heart was still beating.
She gave the injection of euthanol into his side: the needle was on a 30 degree angle and it went into his side, towards he head. We waited a minute and then she listen for his heart. It had stopped.
The whole process took about 5 minutes. I was relieved it went so fast and without complications.
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
It was just posted on another thread that isofluorane gas does not keep rats from feeling pain ...
So I would think that a heart injection given to an unconscious rat would still be painful, especially if the vet had to try several times to get the heart.
Perhaps we should be requesting that our rats recieve an injuction of metacam before getting isofluorane gas, etc. when they are being put to sleep.
So I would think that a heart injection given to an unconscious rat would still be painful, especially if the vet had to try several times to get the heart.
Perhaps we should be requesting that our rats recieve an injuction of metacam before getting isofluorane gas, etc. when they are being put to sleep.
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
I think that the gassing down of a rat to be euthanized would be much deeper than anesthetizing a rat for surgery, especially as with surgery you can keep it lower, with the addition of pain meds beforehand.
Dr. Munn does the injection into the heart. Its very fast and the rat is deep under the iso at that point.
Dr. Munn does the injection into the heart. Its very fast and the rat is deep under the iso at that point.
Debbie
Well-Known Member
I will be consulting my own vet on the iso discussion. I find it impossible to believe that it doesn't keep them from feeling pain. That would be like saying they can feel it when they are cut open for a spay or tumor removal.
Now, I do know our vet puts our rats completely under for a euthanisia. Deeply sedated like with any surgery. Our vet also gives them pain meds during surgery(Buprenex) but does so while they are under, so when they wake up, they don't feel that post surgery pain.
We do give our rats Metacam post surgery, but not for euthanasia. I'm still having a hard time believing that any good vet would us a gas on an animal that does not keep them from feeling pain.
Now, I do know our vet puts our rats completely under for a euthanisia. Deeply sedated like with any surgery. Our vet also gives them pain meds during surgery(Buprenex) but does so while they are under, so when they wake up, they don't feel that post surgery pain.
We do give our rats Metacam post surgery, but not for euthanasia. I'm still having a hard time believing that any good vet would us a gas on an animal that does not keep them from feeling pain.
theratlady
Well-Known Member
they wouldnt feel a needle in the heart as that does not cause as much pain response as cutting and ligating.
gas renders them unconscience. you can give a higher concentration of gas when euthanizing without worry of them dying because that is the end result desired.
if iso had analgesic properties then animals wouldnt feel pain when they woke up. this is something that has been studied and noted and hence why we used preop pain meds better then butorphanol. torb is still used but its not relied on for longer term pain control.
anybody have dental surgery with nitrous oxide? this is a similar scenario you not really feel much because you are sedated plus some freezing has been done. but when both wear off you feel pain right? that is why an advil or similar drug is usually advised to be taken before hand.
gas renders them unconscience. you can give a higher concentration of gas when euthanizing without worry of them dying because that is the end result desired.
if iso had analgesic properties then animals wouldnt feel pain when they woke up. this is something that has been studied and noted and hence why we used preop pain meds better then butorphanol. torb is still used but its not relied on for longer term pain control.
anybody have dental surgery with nitrous oxide? this is a similar scenario you not really feel much because you are sedated plus some freezing has been done. but when both wear off you feel pain right? that is why an advil or similar drug is usually advised to be taken before hand.
sausage4ever
Well-Known Member
I have only had one rat PTS, Eli's brother Teddy and I was there the whole time. I was there becuase I had watched my vet inject another person's rat straight into the heart while it was still concious, and I was holding it (I used to work at this clinic). This experience terrified me and I would not let that happen to any of my rats. So when I went to take Teddy to be PTS I asked to go with him, they put a big gas mask over his whole body and he slowly drifted off to sleep. The thing is I don't think they injected him after, he was just dead (or so I thought) and I just left. Is it possible to just gas a rat to death??? If so I will be doing this again for my Eli.
Jessekah
Active Member
My vet was very lovely.
He gave her a sedative which I believed almost put her to sleep (she was very old. Once he injected the lethal dose she died within 30 seconds. She seemed relaxed and not in any pain (I hope).
He also sent me a sympathy card a few days later!
He gave her a sedative which I believed almost put her to sleep (she was very old. Once he injected the lethal dose she died within 30 seconds. She seemed relaxed and not in any pain (I hope).
He also sent me a sympathy card a few days later!
pscychopomp
Well-Known Member
Having worked in a vet clinic for two and a half years I had to witness a lot of euthanasias :/ The smallest animal I saw was a rabbit and they injected it into a vein in the ear, but rats are so small it's probably nearly impossible to do it through a vein...unless it's done through the jugular? but I can see them being too squirmy for that (I'm really surprised that it was possible to inject those rats in the heart while still conscious :s). I wonder why a vet would opt to inject them in the abdomen over the heart, the whole point is for it to be over fast.
Marylou
Well-Known Member
As I indicated in my welcome page, I have worked for 30 years at the Medical College of Wisconsin. we have a breeding colony of Wag/rij/MCW rats they are into their 70th generation.
Our ratties are gassed with a nose cone, Isoflurane, then we just continue until they have passed (absence of breath,heart pulse) This doesn't take long, as we use an overdose of the Isoflurane and they just pass away, it is very peaceful.
I actually saw a very nice youtube video of a rat being put to sleep, using the nose cone.
It is sad when we have to, but these little dollies just don't live long enough, so we need to enjoy them each and every day.
There are other methods, such as C02, but I find the Isoflurane doesn't scare them as much, they tend to just take in breaths and drift off, where as with the C02 they tend to struggle for breath more.
Our ratties are gassed with a nose cone, Isoflurane, then we just continue until they have passed (absence of breath,heart pulse) This doesn't take long, as we use an overdose of the Isoflurane and they just pass away, it is very peaceful.
I actually saw a very nice youtube video of a rat being put to sleep, using the nose cone.
It is sad when we have to, but these little dollies just don't live long enough, so we need to enjoy them each and every day.
There are other methods, such as C02, but I find the Isoflurane doesn't scare them as much, they tend to just take in breaths and drift off, where as with the C02 they tend to struggle for breath more.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
Rats need to be sedated before there's any injection.
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
and deeply unconscious if they are injected in the heart ...
Cigar
Well-Known Member
I was denied the ability to be with Clover while she was PTS.. I did grill them about their procedures over the phone and in person to make sure she would be unconscious before she was injected into the heart. I never thought to ask if I could come in /after/ the gas and hold her.. my poor lady.. This was so hard for me because I had always been present, since my childhood, for any pet that I could. I was always the last person my pets saw if it was possible.
Marylou
Well-Known Member
Why does a rat need to be injected?????
The Iso will euthanize the rat, in a very short period, maybe 5 minutes.
I think Vet do this to charge more money...
The Iso will euthanize the rat, in a very short period, maybe 5 minutes.
I think Vet do this to charge more money...
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
I don't think the Iso is enough... my rats are put in a chamber with the Iso, it takes a few minutes for them to fall asleep and then they are injected. Some rats with pulmonary abscesses can't take in that much iso so it would take forever for them to "die" from it.
sausage4ever
Well-Known Member
This is what I have found on the subject
" Inhalant Anesthetics
An overdose of inhalant anesthetics such as ether, halothane, methoxyflurane, isoflurane, and enflurane fulfils the principle of a humane death. Their use, however, poses a risk to human subjects who may be exposed to their vapours; thus, they are considered an occupational hazard (see Anesthesia, as well as Occupational Health and Safety). Chambers are available commercially to expose animals to such anesthetic gases in order to either produce anesthesia or, by overexposure, to produce euthanasia. Scavenging systems to remove excess gases are readily adapted to such enclosures. Additionally, anesthetic masks can be prepared to fit even small rodents. The vapours are inhaled until respiration ceases. The animal is then checked to ensure that it is dead.
The soaking of gauze with inhalant anesthetics and then placing it in a container with the animal(s) to be euthanized may be used only if there are no other methods of delivery of the anesthetic gases. The fact that inhalant anesthetics are liquid makes it essential that animals be exposed to vapours only, as the liquid form is a topical irritant. The delivery system should provide sufficient oxygen with the anesthetic vapour to ensure unconsciousness precedes hypoxia.
"
Source: http://www.ccac.ca/en/CCAC_Programs/Gui ... /CHXII.HTM
"INHALANT ANESTHETICS
Inhalant anesthetics (eg, ether, halothane, methoxyflurane, isoflurane, sevoflurane, desflurane, and enflurane) have been used to euthanatize many species.45 Halothane induces anesthesia rapidly and is the most effective inhalant anesthetic for euthanasia. Enflurane is less soluble in blood than halothane, but, because of its lower vapor pressure and lower potency, induction rates may be similar to those for halothane. At deep anesthetic planes, animals may seizure. It is an effective agent for euthanasia, but the associated seizure activity may be disturbing to personnel. Isoflurane is less soluble than halothane, and it should induce anesthesia more rapidly. However, it has a slightly pungent odor and animals often hold their breath, delaying onset of loss of consciousness. Isoflurane also may require more drug to kill an animal, compared with halothane. Although isoflurane is acceptable as a euthanasia agent, halothane is preferred.
RecommendationsâIn order of preference, halothane, enflurane, isoflurane, sevoflurane, methoxyflurane, and desflurane, with or without nitrous oxide, are acceptable for euthanasia of small animals (< 7 kg)."
Source: http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfa ... anasia.pdf
ALso the cited sites can be checked about information regarding use of CO2 for euthanasia in case anyone cares.
" Inhalant Anesthetics
An overdose of inhalant anesthetics such as ether, halothane, methoxyflurane, isoflurane, and enflurane fulfils the principle of a humane death. Their use, however, poses a risk to human subjects who may be exposed to their vapours; thus, they are considered an occupational hazard (see Anesthesia, as well as Occupational Health and Safety). Chambers are available commercially to expose animals to such anesthetic gases in order to either produce anesthesia or, by overexposure, to produce euthanasia. Scavenging systems to remove excess gases are readily adapted to such enclosures. Additionally, anesthetic masks can be prepared to fit even small rodents. The vapours are inhaled until respiration ceases. The animal is then checked to ensure that it is dead.
The soaking of gauze with inhalant anesthetics and then placing it in a container with the animal(s) to be euthanized may be used only if there are no other methods of delivery of the anesthetic gases. The fact that inhalant anesthetics are liquid makes it essential that animals be exposed to vapours only, as the liquid form is a topical irritant. The delivery system should provide sufficient oxygen with the anesthetic vapour to ensure unconsciousness precedes hypoxia.
"
Source: http://www.ccac.ca/en/CCAC_Programs/Gui ... /CHXII.HTM
"INHALANT ANESTHETICS
Inhalant anesthetics (eg, ether, halothane, methoxyflurane, isoflurane, sevoflurane, desflurane, and enflurane) have been used to euthanatize many species.45 Halothane induces anesthesia rapidly and is the most effective inhalant anesthetic for euthanasia. Enflurane is less soluble in blood than halothane, but, because of its lower vapor pressure and lower potency, induction rates may be similar to those for halothane. At deep anesthetic planes, animals may seizure. It is an effective agent for euthanasia, but the associated seizure activity may be disturbing to personnel. Isoflurane is less soluble than halothane, and it should induce anesthesia more rapidly. However, it has a slightly pungent odor and animals often hold their breath, delaying onset of loss of consciousness. Isoflurane also may require more drug to kill an animal, compared with halothane. Although isoflurane is acceptable as a euthanasia agent, halothane is preferred.
RecommendationsâIn order of preference, halothane, enflurane, isoflurane, sevoflurane, methoxyflurane, and desflurane, with or without nitrous oxide, are acceptable for euthanasia of small animals (< 7 kg)."
Source: http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfa ... anasia.pdf
ALso the cited sites can be checked about information regarding use of CO2 for euthanasia in case anyone cares.
LA
Well-Known Member
Mine injects a sedative as opposed to gas and once they are deeply under she injects into the heart. I can stay with them.
Rissa
Well-Known Member
My vet gives a sedative in the back of the neck, I'm allowed to hold the rat until its asleep, she then gases them with iso just to be sure and injects the euthanol into the liver.
