Harry has been on antibiotics for over 3 weeks baytril and doxy and his breathing is not getting better and tonight he looks just miserable and his back legs are getting clumsy on him... So until I can get the vet to give me azitho I am going to start a fresh course of antibiotics adding in amoxi and trying a couple doses of lasix to see if I can get some improvement out of him as he has quite wet sneezes which makes me think this is trying to turn into pneumonia which I don't want! What else can cause these symptoms? Heart issues? Neurological? He is 20 months old and was bred by someone that didn't have a clue what she was doing.. I have 2 of his siblings both have issues of their own, one is hormonal nightmare and other has a tumor coming in high on her side.. They are all the same age.. I'm going to try and get him in Thursday but the vet probably won't be able to see him till next week so until then I want to at least keep him from getting worse than he is.. The lasix is 20mg and he weighs 565 grams!
Harry mouth and nose turning bluish purple and back legs getting weaker
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lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't use lasix unless you think you are dealing with heart issues, as dehydration with a sick rat is dangerous and can make him feel worse.
Until you get the zithro, can you tell me the dosages you are using for the doxy & baytril?
Try using 10 mg/kg for the doxy, and 15 mg/kg for the baytril.
Ok so I'll start with the doxy.. It's 100mg of powder mixed with 5ml of liquid.. I do 3ml of water and let dissolve then add 2 ml of honey for taste and his dose on that is 0.3ml. The baytril is 10% 100mg/1ml
And the dose for that is 0.1ml. The amoxi is a 250mg powder mixed with 5ml of water and his dose for that is 0.44. I mix it all in chicken baby food as it's the only food I've found he wont stick his nose up at as he can taste the meds in the other stuff I've tried..
And the dose for that is 0.1ml. The amoxi is a 250mg powder mixed with 5ml of water and his dose for that is 0.44. I mix it all in chicken baby food as it's the only food I've found he wont stick his nose up at as he can taste the meds in the other stuff I've tried..
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
All those dosages look great, doxy at 10 mg/kg, baytril at over 15 mg/kg 
I haven't started the new round of antibiotics yet but what I did do last night was gave him a dose of enacard I believe is what it's called..Heart meds that we tried with alex before we took his x-ray and he already looks 100% better as far as energy goes..He met me wide eyed at his cage this morning and just warmed my heart as he has been so restless and tired the past 4-5 days.. Should I add antibiotics to that until next week since his breathing is a little improved but still heavy or should I give it a couple of days to see if that gets better as well? or should I go ahead and try the lasix?
and he already looks 100% better as far as energy goes..He met me wide eyed at his cage this morning and just warmed my heart as he has been so restless and tired the past 4-5 days.. Should I add antibiotics to that until next week since his breathing is a little improved but still heavy or should I give it a couple of days to see if that gets better as well? or should I go ahead and try the lasix?
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
I haven't started the new round of antibiotics yet but what I did do last night was gave him a dose of enacard I believe is what it's called..Heart meds that we tried with alex before we took his x-ray
Enacard is enalapril is it not? And he improved a LOT? He may have a heart issue, which is great since you found it so early.
Add in the lasix and see if he improves more...keep him on the antibiotics as resp and heart issues often go hand in hand.
Yes and he perked up in less than 12hrs! the lasix is 20mg can you give me a dose for him for that? He has been restless just constantly moving from one spot to the other trying to sleep and his back legs were weak and cold a couple of times but never turned blue or anything..Last night I had him out and he managed to get on the top of the couch and just flattened out like he was just exhausted to I remember dealing with alex when we thought that is what was wrong with him so I gave in and gave him a dose of it since I've tried everything except that and the diuretic..Should I give him all 3? the doxy,amoxi and baytril or just one maybe doxy or baytril since amoxi is more for external things? Then when the vet gives me the azitho I can add that with the other antibiotic? I'll do whatever it takes to make him feel better! Also the naked guy I have him caged with likes to power groom him and I think it really stresses him out as he squeaks and kinda cringes when he gets near him..Should I seperate him until he feels better? He has a fear of other rats because his brother like to beat up on him but he was finally getting over it until he started getting sick
Ok so he is now getting enacard at night and lasix and baytril in the afternoon. He is looking better but still a little wet sounding in his nose so going to add doxy with the heart meds tonight.. Would steroids help? Or just keep on this path as long as he is feeling good.
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Unfortunately I have had a lot of experience treating rats with heart problems
If a rat is suspected to have a heart problem, you test dose with benazepril or enalapril (0.25 mg/454.4 g, twice a day).
If this helps then there is a heart problem and atenolol (1 mg/454.4g twice a day) is added.
Lasix is also given as needed, starting at 1-2mg/Ib twice a day. The amount and the frequency of Lasix can be increased as needed.
I usually increase the frequency to 3 or 4 times a day if necessary and not the strength.
If the heart meds are helping then my rat is xrayed.
Not all heart problems cause the heart to become enlarged. Not all heart problems can be detected on an xray.
If the heart is enlarged as seen on an xray, then digoxin is added to the other heart meds .... but only if the heart is enlarged.
Steroids might help .... I know some people use them
But I would increase the meds you are giving to the starting dose before adding anything ..... if enacard is enalapril then it is given twice a day. The starting dose for Lasix is also twice a day.
Since enalapril is helping, atenolol needs to be added.
Hope he is soon feeling much better
If a rat is suspected to have a heart problem, you test dose with benazepril or enalapril (0.25 mg/454.4 g, twice a day).
If this helps then there is a heart problem and atenolol (1 mg/454.4g twice a day) is added.
Lasix is also given as needed, starting at 1-2mg/Ib twice a day. The amount and the frequency of Lasix can be increased as needed.
I usually increase the frequency to 3 or 4 times a day if necessary and not the strength.
If the heart meds are helping then my rat is xrayed.
Not all heart problems cause the heart to become enlarged. Not all heart problems can be detected on an xray.
If the heart is enlarged as seen on an xray, then digoxin is added to the other heart meds .... but only if the heart is enlarged.
Steroids might help .... I know some people use them
But I would increase the meds you are giving to the starting dose before adding anything ..... if enacard is enalapril then it is given twice a day. The starting dose for Lasix is also twice a day.
Since enalapril is helping, atenolol needs to be added.
Hope he is soon feeling much better
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Yes enacard is the generic version of enalapril. Ok I will start doing twice a day and his is definitely breathing better and becoming more active. I will ask the vet to prescribe me the other and do the xray but won't have money for that till next week.. Should I go ahead and add the other before the xray or just push his appointment back until I can afford both?
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Start the atenolol as soon as possible
His siblings may or may not show symptoms of heart problems.
Heart issues can be genetic so it is something to keep in mind.
In my rats, the symptom I get most often is a resp. infection that antibiotics don't help,
but others have said they notice poor circulation and poor color such as you noticed
When you do an xray and if the heart is not enlarged, keep him on the other 3 meds.
And his heart may become enlarged in the future as his heart disease worsens
The meds allow a good quality of life but can not stop or reverse the heart disease
His siblings may or may not show symptoms of heart problems.
Heart issues can be genetic so it is something to keep in mind.
In my rats, the symptom I get most often is a resp. infection that antibiotics don't help,
but others have said they notice poor circulation and poor color such as you noticed
When you do an xray and if the heart is not enlarged, keep him on the other 3 meds.
And his heart may become enlarged in the future as his heart disease worsens
The meds allow a good quality of life but can not stop or reverse the heart disease
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SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
It just depends on how effective the meds are for him, what is wrong with his heart, and the progression of his heart disease
Sometimes rats live for a very very long time on heart meds, so it is possible ..... but he could also need to be put to sleep tomorrow
The quality of life is most important.
For example: River has been on heart meds for about 6 months now as her heart is very large and she has congestive heart failure, but she is doing relatively ok (River was 2 yrs in June)
Serenity's heart was too damaged by the time she started showing symptoms and she was on heart meds for only 2 days before dying this past summer
Sometimes rats live for a very very long time on heart meds, so it is possible ..... but he could also need to be put to sleep tomorrow
The quality of life is most important.
For example: River has been on heart meds for about 6 months now as her heart is very large and she has congestive heart failure, but she is doing relatively ok (River was 2 yrs in June)
Serenity's heart was too damaged by the time she started showing symptoms and she was on heart meds for only 2 days before dying this past summer
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I think harry has quit eating and drinking I haven't seen him drink at all today and only oxbow I've seen him eat was right before I gave him his meds about 10 hours ago... Gonna make him the banana baby food mix I made Alex when he first got sick
I haven't seen him drink at all today and only oxbow I've seen him eat was right before I gave him his meds about 10 hours ago... Gonna make him the banana baby food mix I made Alex when he first got sick
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Make sure you have the equipment etc to give sub-Q fluids when necessary as it is a fine line (that changes) between enough Lasix and dehydration
Dehydration kills ..... he may be dehydrated .....
Hope he is doing better now
I always keep block mush in the cage (changed twice a day) when anyone is on Lasix as it helps to keep them hydrated
also give things like water melon and quinoa as healthy and contains a lot of fluids
Dehydration kills ..... he may be dehydrated .....
Hope he is doing better now
I always keep block mush in the cage (changed twice a day) when anyone is on Lasix as it helps to keep them hydrated
also give things like water melon and quinoa as healthy and contains a lot of fluids
I got him to eat enough enough baby food to take his meds and he also drank some ensure but wasn't interested in anything I offered so guess we will stick with that for now. Vet won't give me the atanol until she see his next Thursday...why do we have holidays again? But he will also be getting his xray then as well so we will see where we stand then. I have everything I need but saline but I know you can make that I'll just have to look it up.
