Moose - PT?

Hi Shackers -

Moose is not well at all. I posted in October about his weight (http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31410&highlight=Moose), and in September about him being "off" (sleeping with his eyes open and just indescribably off...) He is getting worse and I'm suspecting PT. Only dealt with a few PTs myself and the symptoms were different, so not sure now.

He's lost a lot of weight. Was 925g in Oct., was losing nice and slow on his diet until end of November when it started falling off. He's now around 780g.

Beginning of December he started big wet sneezes, so he's been on Doxy/Baytril for that and he is sounding better, but he'll stay on them at least 4 weeks.

A week and a half ago I sat outside the cage forever watching him and finally saw him take a lab block and struggle to eat it. He can grasp okay with front hands, but kept turning the block and licking at it. Wrestled with him a while and finally saw his teeth, the top were definitely uneven and the bottoms a little long but not too bad.

He ate soft food just fine until his re-check for URI this past Friday, when the vet trimmed his teeth up. He said the bottoms were a bit long, (not gouging into his flesh or anything), and the top were uneven, like I thought.

So that was about 5 days ago, and he still isn't eating much hard food. Thought the teeth were sore from trim or he was holding out for good stuff, but I did watch him with a lab block and he was still having a bit of difficulty, although slightly better.

The other worrisome thing he has been doing is this thing with his back legs and tail - started about two weeks ago, he wouldn't do it at the vet so vet wasn't sure what it was. His tail starts thrashing wildly and his back legs kind of twitch/spasm/hop around and he sort of hops in a circle, and it looks involuntary. Vet suggested it could be a pain response - he has pressure bumbles from being fat and one occasionally scabs off and bleeds. But when he's done the thrashing thing I have looked and the bumbles look clean and dry, not bloody. They're actually slowly healing. Washed and Blu Koted daily.

I will try to upload a video of part of one of the thrashing fits he had.

Otherwise, he mostly sits in the corner of the cage doing nothing. Staring into space or sleeping. He gets really tense when I touch him, which he didn't used to, but he does like sitting in my lap getting scratches in hard to reach spots. Also doing some mild tooth chattering that is reminiscent of the PT I have seen. He is not drinking water, but possibly because the mush foods keep him hydrated (passed the skin pinch test). Last night he seemed to be having occasionally difficulty manuevering the floor, not on any particular side of the body and hard to distinguish from his fat waddle.

Moose will be 2 years in February-ish.

I have cabergoline and some sort of oral steroid (can't remember, think prednisolone). Didn't want to start anything without being more sure about PT.

Ok, can't upload the video, it said "invalid file" when I tried. :/ If anyone wants to see it or could be an angel and help me post it (I think it's a quicktime? file but honestly have no clue) email me: [email protected]

That sounds weird, but nothing really sounds like PT to me. Have you tried any pain medication - almost sounds like he is in pain. What about his other teeth - do you know if they looked alright? Arthritis? Almost sounds like some type of spinal injury with the twitching tail. I hope you can figure it out. Healing vibes to Moose :flowers:

Poor Moose. It could be a brain tumour that's not a PT. That would explain the odd behaviour.
Or, it could be pain. Any time my rats have twitched or wrung their tail, they were either agitated or in pain.
Maybe you could give him pain meds for a few days and see if his behaviour changes.

I will try that and see. Otherwise I will grab a vet appt and have him check the teeth again. He knocked him out for trim and had a look inside but didn't see anything wrong. I hate to think he's in pain

It seems harder and different to figure out my boy irish had pt than it was with the girls. I would get a video and see if you can see it in there. Try a cheerio and him walking around a bit.

[ame]https://vimeo.com/114738676[/ame]

Tried to upload last weeks vid, not sure it worked. Video'd another longer episode tonight.

By watching your video - it did not strike me as being PT.

So sorry he is not doing well. Maybe something neurological/spinal. I agree a vet visit w/b best. Definately some good pain medicine to keep him as comfortable as possible.

Best wishes headed your way :getwell:

Its getting more frequent, so I'm calling today to see when they can get him in.

Trying to upload another vid. If it works, you see him start licking his tail several times. I examined it afterwards and it looks and feels normal, and he's not sensitive to me touching it.

[ame]https://vimeo.com/114775001[/ame]

Is he pooping alright? Have you checked for plugs? Perhaps a painful UTI? That is strange what he is doing, but I don't see alot of PT signs there.

I agree, it does not look like a PT or brain problem. I would say pain, either abdominal or in his spine. Like a nerve is getting pinched and he is trying to get away from whatever is hurting him. Poor little man!

He's pooping fine. Thought about UTI but he's been on doxy/baytril for about two weeks now - are they good UTI abs?
I am also leaning toward something spinal. Worried about internal masses :/

I think an x-ray may be in order to have a look at his spinal column. Maybe he got injured and a disc is impinging on his spinal cord.

That is very strange indeed. Makes me want to snatch him up and smother him in kisses the poor baby. So this isnt constant? it come and goes? Some seizures can make the body parts freak out while never losing consciousness. Did you feel his belly up for lumps? we have found you can feel them pretty easily especally if it could be causing this much stuff.

It comes and goes. Nothing seems to trigger it. But the episode seem to be getting longer and more frequent.

He just feels fat. He has never liked being picked up much (but used to shoulder ride and liked back scratches). Even when he was young he didn't like being touched around the tummy. So even now when I try to feel he squirms and tenses up too much to get a good feel.

Barnaby had an abdominal mass that was huge but you couldn't feel it well - he just felt fat. Only found it on x ray. But if Moose had something big enough to mess with his spine wouldn't I be seeing other effects, like labored breathing and maybe not pooping if it was pressing his intestines?

Whatever it is, definitely doing an x ray tomorrow.

X-rays absolutely normal today.

He's starting prednisolone to see if it makes a difference. May add a pain med such a gabapentin if it seems fitting.

Showed vet the vids, he agrees it doesn't look like PT.

Hmmmm, strange indeed...
Good news but bad news; no resolution.

I'm glad we didn't find an abdominal mass at least. He did comment there was a lot if gas and recommended a OTC med, forget what it's called but will look at tomorrow (mom was with me an wrote it down). But doubt gas would cause this.

Like Joann said, good but bad. Hope the steroids work. Our Lovee has an odd tail too, but not a pronounced as Moose.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD3jmET0e34&feature=youtu.be"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD3jmET0 ... e=youtu.be[/ame]

So it's been roughly 4 days on the prednisolone. It tastes AWESOME, which is a huge help since Moose would be difficult to force meds into. He's eating them well.
Still not doing awesome with solid foods, but he manages to slowly get stuff down. Still getting oxbow mush, which he likes.

As far as the thrashing, it might maybe be easing up a bit. I have not been home nearly as much as usual lately because of holiday busyness, so it's been hard to monitor, but it's been over 24 hours since I last saw him start flailing around. Hope I'm not speaking too soon. He also seems maybe a bit less tense. He missed his pred this a.m. *groan* Was away over night and Mom was going to do it this morning but she is feeling dreadful with a cold and had several minor crises this morning and just didn't get to it. Meh. Getting back on schedule tonight.