update Norry back from the vet, last post

Norry is my roughly 2 yr old boy who has been on meds for a heart problem since Feb

he was recently treated for a urinary tract infection and that seems to have cleared up

He is losing wt even though he eats like he's starving. He also seems confused.

he gets into the food bowl when he's eating and doesn't seem to be able to lick it up normally.
he gets the food (baby cereal and ensure with baby food fruit added) all over himself!

he does do that head bumping thing when I stroke him, and I have seen him sit the way a PT rat does, but those things don't happen often enough for me to be convinced he's got a PT

maybe some neuro issues, though, cuz he often seems confused about where things are


I just don't know what to make of what is going on with him.

In some ways he seems a bit better, he walks a lot better since getting the UTI cleared up
but he's just, I don't know, off.


ETA: here's a video of him eating baby cereal- he gets it all over him, he gets into the bowl and he seems to have a hard time licking it up:

http://youtu.be/dyT8ACWaAHk

another video of him eating puffed rice, he can hold food ok! whew

but he does this weird paw shaking around 4:20 and beyond

he just confuses me!
http://youtu.be/2fs5Dp9tTOM

Petunia said:

another video of him eating puffed rice, he can hold food ok! whew

but he does this weird paw shaking around 4:20 and beyond

he just confuses me!
http://youtu.be/2fs5Dp9tTOM

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I see the paw thing it starts around 4:10, and I'm not sure what that is unless he's having focal seizures which I highly doubt. However, I do see PT - he seems confused with eating, the standing in his cereal, he seems to be holding the puffed rice more with his "wrists" than paws, and I think when he walks his back legs are further apart than they should be and he's closer to the ground - not sure though since the videos were more for his eating. He has a confused look when you are offering him the rice. Are his eyes dull or glossy? I hope I'm wrong and someone will have another opinion, but I do think he's in the early stages of PT. I find that giving our boys a bowl about half the depth of the one you have now makes it easier for them to eat out. (with PT)

he has cataracts, Vickie
yes he does walk with his legs far apart, i wondered about that.

yeh, I see early PT - but also wondering if he might have kidney failure? cuz he pees a lot (It seems) and he wants mostly moist food, this was the first time in DAYS that I've seen him eat anything dry at all- he wont' eat the Regal Rat, even when it's been soaked, only baby food and baby cereal, fruits and veggies. he goes for anything with a high water content, usually.

so it was after he ate a lot of wet cereal and some broccoli that he ate that puffed rice.

In cats, anyway, kidney failure can make toxins build up in their system that can cause confusion, nausea, lack of appetite, etc, and then when you give them fluids, it flushes them out, and they feel better

he didn't get any fluids, but i'm thinking the wet foods re hydrated him and then he felt better. Before eating the baby cereal, he was very lethargic and sleepy.

I just dont' know what to think. I'm gonna call his vet when she gets in on tuesday and see what she thinks. I don't know if she's ever had a rat with kidney disease nor if she knows what to do for one, IF that's what he's got

Victoria also mentioned kidney disease cuz of the rapid wt loss (I've posted on FB too) I think rats with heart disease are more likely to get kidney problems, aren't they?

dspch911 said:

I see the paw thing it starts around 4:10, and I'm not sure what that is unless he's having focal seizures which I highly doubt. However, I do see PT - he seems confused with eating, the standing in his cereal, he seems to be holding the puffed rice more with his "wrists" than paws, and I think when he walks his back legs are further apart than they should be and he's closer to the ground - not sure though since the videos were more for his eating. He has a confused look when you are offering him the rice. Are his eyes dull or glossy? I hope I'm wrong and someone will have another opinion, but I do think he's in the early stages of PT. I find that giving our boys a bowl about half the depth of the one you have now makes it easier for them to eat out. (with PT)

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actually in these videos, this is the least "confused looking" he's been

he usually looks more confused and much more tired

Petunia said:

actually in these videos, this is the least "confused looking" he's been

he usually looks more confused and much more tired

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Our Finn died of kidney disease. He actually stop drinking, never drank from a water bottle that we saw from the day of diagnosis until we had him pts. We have him lots of fruits, etc with water in them. He too lost weight and lost it fast, but so did my PT boys. Fish oil was recommended for Finn. I just ask about the eyes because my boys that got PT had dull eyes.

dspch911 said:

Our Finn died of kidney disease. He actually stop drinking, never drank from a water bottle that we saw from the day of diagnosis until we had him pts. We have him lots of fruits, etc with water in them. He too lost weight and lost it fast, but so did my PT boys. Fish oil was recommended for Finn. I just ask about the eyes because my boys that got PT had dull eyes.

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ack, Norry doesn't drink from the water bottle either. Fish oil? how does that help?
I can give him some, I've got some capsules of fish oil.

did your vet say anything about giving subQ fluids or anything like that?

I guess whatever is it that's wrong with him, his days could be limited. It would suck if it's both his kidneys and PT on top of the heart. Poor guy can't catch a break. he's been unwell since he was around a year old or so.

I've haven't been posting much lately, although I skim posts each day,
because I've been spending hours and hours with my boys and with my old cat who is also not doing well

I feel bad just posting when there's a problem but I just have this awful feeling that we dont' have much time to spend together

I cant' even clear my mind to think about much else.

what was the deciding factor on euthanizing the guy with kidney failure?

We did give him SQ fluids, but Finn lived months although he was skin and bones. I honestly cannot remember what the fish oil did, but it was suppose to lower something. Our deciding factor probably wasn't the best, but we decided to let him go when we let Curley go so they could be together. He was in terrible shape and unfortunately he also had gotten a bad infection in his mouth because we didn't realize his bottom teeth over grew and pierced his mouth. He needed surgery to clean it out so he could eat and he wouldn't of made it through the surgery.

EDIT: Here's his thread, maybe you can find something to help - I just cannot read through it at the moment. http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27330&highlight=finn

thank you for the link-Finns info is very helpful!! it sounds so much like what Norry is going thru

I hope you have a better vet than Finn did as I have now learned there are meds he could of been put on. I think I've read other threads on here too where the rat has been given medication for their kidney disease. We'll keep Norry in our thoughts...

I see some neurological signs of something amiss, although perhaps not PT as he's not showing many of the signs. I found my rats with neuro problems lost weight and had problems eating food. It looked like they were eating but they didn't actually consume very much. They also start chewing on inappropriate things like the edge of a porcelain bowl, the edge of a spoon, and your finger where they never used to do that. Confusion and mobility for sure. Distraction - they seem to forget they are eating, can't find the food right in front of them, or stop and stare off into space. They can also fall off things easily, so you need to be careful if you keep their door open.
Rigid arms and a stance set way back on their hocks for PT.
Perhaps it is his kidneys and a build up of toxins. Most rats are already on a low protein diet. I'm not familiar with kidney meds. Good luck with your little man! :hugs:
And don't feel bad about coming to the Shack when there's a problem. It's more important to spend time with your seniors than to be on the computer. :nod:

thanks Joanne

well I put my boy on the scale tonight, he's down to just 413 grams :thumbdwn:

he started out at 630 grams

He's really looking rough. I am spending as much time as I can with him, feeding him whatever he wants to eat, and helping to keep him clean

just got a rather large penis plug off his little willie that only took 12 hrs to build up!
all this time I thought it was perfectly fine to check for a plug once every 24hrs but I now know that he can get one that causes obstruction in much less time

I posted a photo of the plug (after removal) in the penis plug thread. I wasn't soft, it was formed and was stuck on there pretty good, I'm sure he could not have peed with it there.

I'll be checking him every 8 hrs now.

my poor old guy. He's being so sweet, he lets me wash him off and I skritch the spots he can't any more.

I am not sure what is exactly going on with him besides the heart condition he's had since Feb or so, and his vet isn't in til next week, so I'm just spending as much time with him as I can

My PT boys (not saying that's what he has) were forming plugs every 4 hours or so - so you might want to check more frequently. Like you I didn't think they formed so many so fast either. Sorry about poor Norry!

EDIT: Didn't even know there was a penis plug thread. Kona had some enormous ones! I found the thread, but I have been told I do not have access to it - whatever!

dspch911 said:

My PT boys (not saying that's what he has) were forming plugs every 4 hours or so - so you might want to check more frequently. Like you I didn't think they formed so many so fast either. Sorry about poor Norry!

EDIT: Didn't even know there was a penis plug thread. Kona has some enormous ones! I found the thread, but I have been told I do not have access to it - whatever!

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Yeh I still don't know about PT but I'm seeing none of the PT signs today.

oh my, thanks for the info about your boys, I'll check him even more now!

He looks pretty good today, I've been hand feeding him at least 4 times a day, yesterday it was more like 6 times and that seems to help him a lot

hmm, no access to the penis plug thread? that's odd, let me check into that ok

And put the link here...

When I try to reply I get this:

dspch911, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

I can read it. Weird dspch911...

Can you try looking at other threads in the Reference section... if they are all not allowing you access.

dspch911 said:

When I try to reply I get this:

dspch911, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Click to expand...

update on Norry- he is eating and eating and eating!! A friend took me out for groceries and I got more than I planned to, but I'm glad now that I did, because he is REALLY chowing down!

he's got some mushrooms, grapes, a plum, some spring mixed greens and some watermelon. when I get back home, I'm going to make him some instant potatoes and give him more veggies.
I did some research on the best diet for a rat with possible/probable kidney issues, and the fruits and low protein low phosphorus foods are recommended. So white pots, rice, pasta are all good as well as the lower protein veggies

SO glad he's eating, hopefully he can put some wt back on

=)