Zymbals Gland Tumour - Please help

[Micky93]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here, in fact this is my first post. I've joined up basically in desperation. One of our rats, Brains, has just suffered what was thought to be a burst abscess, however someone from another forum pointed me towards information on Zymbals Gland Tumours, which I am now almost certain Brain's has. Can anyone tell me the difference?

A brief history of the last couple of weeks:
Just over 2 weeks ago Brains' started developing a lump in front of his left ear, we took him to the vets as it came on practically overnight, and with some discharge from his ear it was put down to an inner ear infection. He had a weeks course of Baytril, which did seem to have an affect on him, and we were sure the lump was going down.

Yesterday, I was sat talking to him while he ate, and he ran over to have a fuss. All was fine, but he had his left side away from me, justbecause of where I was sat. He turned around and it was like something out of the terminator. Where the lump was had completely split open, and was just a mass of blood and puss. Panic set in, and whilst he seemed perfectly normal in his behaviour and everything else (bar the hole in his face), I thought the worse. We rushed him up to the emergency vet who thought it was a burst abscess, and he's on a weeks course of antibiotics with an appointment at the end of this week/start of next week to see if it helps.

I have a photo, but it is a bit gory so please don't look if you're of a sensitive nature.

This was him 2 weeks ago when the lump started:


And this is him today:



Please someone help, I know I'm just a newbie to this forum but he's our little man and I'm desperate :sad3:

 

[lilspaz68]

Ahh ZGT is not fun I have helped many people throught it, helped with initial diagnosis but am only going through it for the first time myself. I am documenting it all so you can check Dusty's thread and pics.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34163

Your boy's lump seems to be a bit forwardly placed as its usually right under the ear, but that is on a standard-eared rat...I am trying to imagine if your boy was a top ear where the location should be.

How old is he?

He will need more than 1 week of baytril though, and you should ask for metacam for pain relief and and for swelling. Have you checked his teeth to make sure they are still aligned? As the ZGT or tumour advances it can push the jaw around. The bacteria/discharge in his ear is also worrying.

IF your boy does have ZGT its a very poor prognosis. Its inoperable as its incredible invasive, even debulking is a bad idea. I would flush the open cavity with isotonic saline to break down the cheesy pus inside and get it out.

With a regular abscess say from a bite wound, it will burst and deflate...with ZGT there will be a lump still there and it will start to grow. This is when you treat with antibiotics to prevent further infection, use metacam for comfort when they exhibit pain, and take them in to be humanely euthanized when their quality of life has diminished.

:sad3:

 

[Micky93]

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly, I just feel so desperate and helpless right now :sad3:

How will we know if it is just an abscess or whether it is ZGT? I don't mean to sound dumb, but these are our first rats, and obviously our first potential case of ZGT. When cleaning the wound out last nigh with a Cotton bud (qtip) it just seemed really deep, but empty.. I couldn't see anything like the black tumour your boy has. Or does that come in time? Does the 'wound' stay completely empty for a while then suddenly have that tumour?

I'm so confused as it's all happened so quickly, and just want him to be OK, which is seeming more and more unlikely by the minute :sad3:

Sorry, forgot to mention... they are roughly about 17 months old, as we rescued them when they were roughly 6 months old but we don't know much about their background. I will check his teeth later, and also will give the vet a ring to find out about metacam. Thank you again.

 

[lilspaz68]

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly, I just feel so desperate and helpless right now :sad3:

How will we know if it is just an abscess or whether it is ZGT? I don't mean to sound dumb, but these are our first rats, and obviously our first potential case of ZGT. When cleaning the wound out last nigh with a Cotton bud (qtip) it just seemed really deep, but empty.. I couldn't see anything like the black tumour your boy has. Or does that come in time? Does the 'wound' stay completely empty for a while then suddenly have that tumour?

I'm so confused as it's all happened so quickly, and just want him to be OK, which is seeming more and more unlikely by the minute :sad3:

Sorry, forgot to mention... they are roughly about 17 months old, as we rescued them when they were roughly 6 months old but we don't know much about their background. I will check his teeth later, and also will give the vet a ring to find out about metacam. Thank you again.

Just keep flushing it out and see what happens. With Dusty that big black thing is a scab...it burst and bled. Did your boys have a lot of blood or just pus? The bleeding was more indicative of a malignancy than anything. I don't like the discharge in his ear though and that needs to be taken care of with antibiotics. Can you gently put a Q-tip down his ear and see if you can remove some of that? See if it smells pure foul like his face will?

 

[Micky93]

Just keep flushing it out and see what happens. With Dusty that big black thing is a scab...it burst and bled. Did your boys have a lot of blood or just pus? The bleeding was more indicative of a malignancy than anything. I don't like the discharge in his ear though and that needs to be taken care of with antibiotics. Can you gently put a Q-tip down his ear and see if you can remove some of that? See if it smells pure foul like his face will?

When the vet cleaned it initially last night, it was mainly pus, and there was lots of it, with some blood. after she had cleaned it there was a fair amount of blood that you could see in the wound, but pretty soon after (30mins - 1hr) the pus was back. Is this a good thing or bad for ZGT? Would it be normal in a burst abscess? Will try with his ear when we clean the wound out later and report back. I just hope it's not ZGT but have an awful feeling about it since reading stuff on here/ratguide :sad3:

 

[lilspaz68]

Just keep flushing it out and see what happens. With Dusty that big black thing is a scab...it burst and bled. Did your boys have a lot of blood or just pus? The bleeding was more indicative of a malignancy than anything. I don't like the discharge in his ear though and that needs to be taken care of with antibiotics. Can you gently put a Q-tip down his ear and see if you can remove some of that? See if it smells pure foul like his face will?

When the vet cleaned it initially last night, it was mainly pus, and there was lots of it, with some blood. after she had cleaned it there was a fair amount of blood that you could see in the wound, but pretty soon after (30mins - 1hr) the pus was back. Is this a good thing or bad for ZGT? Would it be normal in a burst abscess? Will try with his ear when we clean the wound out later and report back. I just hope it's not ZGT but have an awful feeling about it since reading stuff on here/ratguide :sad3:

Dusty's burst, cheesy pus, a TON of blood...then the scab formed and that's where we are now. Yours sounds more like a regular abscess or an inner ear infection that has drained causing this issue. Abscesses often re-fill over and over which is why you have to keep flushing twice a day. I will post another thread for you, which I thought was ZGT but ended up not...this boy healed up

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=23775&hilit=twiggy+abscess

 

[Micky93]

Dusty's burst, cheesy pus, a TON of blood...then the scab formed and that's where we are now. Yours sounds more like a regular abscess or an inner ear infection that has drained causing this issue. Abscesses often re-fill over and over which is why you have to keep flushing twice a day. I will post another thread for you, which I thought was ZGT but ended up not...this boy healed up

http://www.jorats.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... gy+abscess

I do hope it could just be a 'normal' abscess. When we give it a good clean later i will try and take some pictures of before and after, so maybe people can give their opinions on what it appears like? As I said, these are our first rats, and our first case of ZGT, or even just abscess. Thank you for posting that thread, I needed a happy ending.

:sad3:

 

[jorats]

I would get him on Chlorpalm asap, if it's an abscess the med can help. My sister had a girl with an abscess in that location and the flushing and chlopalm helped quite a bit but then you have to deal with why there's an abscess which could be an infected tooth or tumour either in the ear in the area.