Zoey's Kidney Disease UPDATE: 4/18

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Slapdash

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2009
Messages
501
Location
Massachusetts
So one of my younger girls, Zoey, who is only about a year and has always been a big girl, has something going on for sure. I have no idea what is going on with her but it started with her drinking a bit more often then usual a couple weeks ago, but not an alarming amount, I just noticed and kept it in mind. Then she started looking skinny for herself and I started tracking her weight and she's been up and down, dropping almost 30g in 2 days then gaining it back again today, I'm very concerned. The other strange symptom, but I'm not sure it's related (and I apologize for the grossness and vulgarity lol) but I've noticed my other rats, and especially the two babies have been licking her private A LOT???
Now in the past day or two she's started to look sick, just roughed up and slightly lethargic but she's still eating and drinking well and coming to the door for treats and pets and out of the cage to play during out time? The only other thing I noticed is that her spine seems to be slightly more defined, which could be from her weight loss except, it still seemed that way when she gained back most of the weight today? Does anyone have thoughts, I'm sure it's probably not very good news. We're seeing the vet at one tomorrow. Thanks in advance!
 
The drinking more makes me suspect there's some sort of kidney issue - kidney disease, tumour, etc. It's possible the other rats are cleaning her more because she's constantly peeing (?)

Is it possible her spine is more defined because she's hunched?

In regards to the weight gain, is it weight gain or water retention/bloating? Looking at her head, neck, and legs, do they have the same definition/build they did before? (I ask this because I had a young mouse once that bloated right up overnight. I thought for sure she was pregnant, even though the possibility was so remote, until I took her to the vet and he pointed out she was skeletal (face and legs showed it) and very bloated. She was not pregnant but had many internal tumours caused by lymphoma.)

I would suggest pain meds but I don't know how they affect kidney function and since you're going to the vet tomorrow it may cause complications with whatever course of treatment they take. Keep her warm and comfortable until then. :hugs:
 
Thank you for the reply, she does look a little bloated and I have noticed the weight loss most when I look at her head and her legs do seem a thinner. She probably is peeing a lot given how much she's been drinking, didn't even think of that as why they might be licking her so much.
We're leaving in an hour, I'm so afraid of what we might find. What sort of tests should I expect them to run? Never dealt with anything like this in any of my rats before.
 
I am truly not sure at all. I know mamarat has a rat that had a kidney removed recently, maybe she has some more insight or a better idea what to expect. Can you edit the title to reflect a possible kidney issue? That may bring more people this way.
 
Actually Luna never showed any symptoms like that, I thought she had a UTI.

But my rat Ben was drinking lots and being very sick. He had liver disease and the vet only "saw" it during a postmortem.
 
Ok well we're back, and he thinks it's either her kidneys or diabetes, because of the varying weight. He's having me use some urine test strips to rule out the diabetes as our first step. Going to run out and get them now, and while I'm at it I'm going to test Rupert as well, my hairless because he's been chewing his fingers and/or shaking his hands every now and then for months now and I never knew that was a sign of diabetes until I was reading today and he also seems more susceptible to respiratory infections but I always contributed it to him being hairless and having a compromised immune system.

Thanks again for the input, I'm hoping to know for sure by the end of the week or so that way I can start altering her diet and doing things that will improve her well being!

EDIT: I asked the vet what her weight was when we were there last, which was in mid February and she was 460 so overall, she's lost 55-70 grams in about 2 months!
 
Thanks, I hope so too, she has the absolute sweetest and most innocent personality of all my crew :heart:

Very sleepy but so happy to be home after a long day...


AGRfS.jpg
 
Now you have to ask her to pee on a strip. Hmmmm........train your rat to pee on command? Good for when they're sitting on someone else's shoulder. LOL
I hope you can identify what the problem is so that you can treat it. What type of food are you feeding them? Do they get any sugar in their diet? Too many Cheerios?

Edited to add: Maybe the other rats were licking her because there's sugar in her urine - tastes sweet?
 
Joanne said:
Now you have to ask her to pee on a strip. Hmmmm........train your rat to pee on command? Good for when they're sitting on someone else's shoulder. LOL
I hope you can identify what the problem is so that you can treat it. What type of food are you feeding them? Do they get any sugar in their diet? Too many Cheerios?

Edited to add: Maybe the other rats were licking her because there's sugar in her urine - tastes sweet?
Click to expand...

Yeah that's actually what the vet thought, about them licking her. They do get suebees mix a few times a week with cheerios in it but it's my own version so that its mostly low or now sugar cereal and dried fruit(no sugar made for birds) and veggies. It's possible though for sure. They get Harlan Teklad blocks 2016 free fed and vegetables at night before bed. Yeah, I've been trying to do it by waking her up after she's been sleeping for a couple hours and waiting and watching for a few minutes until she goes and it sits in a puddle on the fleece for a second and I poke the stick in. The first test I did a couple of hours ago showed her glucose reading as over 200mg/dL and I read normal is 50-135 :(
 
Wow... that is a big difference. There is a way to express urine by pressing on the bladder but I'm not sure exactly where you press.
If it's the kidneys, you'll need to get her on very low protein and maybe get her SubQ to help take the stress off the kidneys.
 
I'll be interested to see what the vet recommends for treatment. Insulin injections? Probably not safe as you can't check her blood sugar on a regular basis.
 
jorats said:
Wow... that is a big difference. There is a way to express urine by pressing on the bladder but I'm not sure exactly where you press.
If it's the kidneys, you'll need to get her on very low protein and maybe get her SubQ to help take the stress off the kidneys.
Click to expand...

So far we're doing okay catching her pee, I always know when she wakes up from a snooze cause I hear the water bottle tapping away like crazy! Their cage is right in the main room so I can keep a good eye on her.

Her readings so far today were 1000 and 2000 or over which is the high end of the meter. I accidentally listed the blood levels in my previous post, I was a little confused lol. So basically there should be no glucose in the urine. I'm assuming if she continues to show high levels it is more likely to be her kidneys?
My gut tells me it's her kidneys(or diabetes which lead to kidney problems now) just because I can tell she's not herself and I'm seeing her get worse slowly day by day. She looks even more skeletal today, her torso/abdomen is still fairly normal sized (maybe bloated?) but I still feel like her spine is so bony in a way it never was and isn't in any of my other rats. I've never done SubQ before but I keep checking her scruff to see how dehydrated she is and I really think she would benefit from them asap. I would need my to call in a script for that? I found the thread on how to do it, reading now.

The vet told me to call him towards the end of the week with the glucose levels, but because they're consistently so high and she's looking thinner and more dehydrated, I think I'll be calling tomorrow. Should I start treating her like it's her kidneys with some juicy fruits, low protein? Any advice is much appreciated!

Thank you again everyone for the input!

EDIT: Here she is a little while ago, can you see what I mean about her spine? It looks more like she's hunched in this picture but you can also feel practically every vertebrae, and her sides seemed to be sucked in a little today,not sure if it's from pain or the weight loss, but I'm also afraid to give her anything until I know what's going on?

4Wa3u.jpg
 
I'm sorry to hear it does look like it is her kidneys. I don't think you need a script for sub Q fluids, but it's probably best to get some guidance from your vet and maybe have him do it with you the first time. I would definitely call tomorrow and not wait until the end of the week in your shoes. I don't have a lot of experience with sucking sides in from pain, but that pic looks like weight loss to me. At least her eyes are still bright, she looks like she's willing to fight with you.
 
Well, she's lost more weight today, can't get the Sub Q fluids until tomorrow so I've been syringing her water every hour or two to make sure she's hydrated. She hasn't been drinking as much the past day or two :( She's not too interested in the water though, and I'm having a hard time convincing her to drink it, can I add a little sugar? I've been reading up on diets for rats in kidney failure and I know they say high fat, low protein, and low salt but I wasn't sure on sugar?

I found this article today http://www.2ndchance.info/ratkidney.htm And it all makes since now because she's pretty much always drank more than my other rats and in the past two months more than her usual but in the past week she hasn't been drinking as much as is normal for her. We recently moved two babies into the cage and I think it's the stress from this that trigggered the whole illness and now she's not flushing her kidneys out as well as she used to and is becoming sick because of it :sad3:

If I can really hit this head on I'm hoping she can get through this and it's just an episode, I know it will be chronic but hopefully I can give her more time and quality with some TLC :heart: I really don't want to lose her!
 
She definitely looks like it's her kidneys...she's like a rat version of my kidney failure cat who has developed the sunk in sides and bony spine. Kidney diets should be low in protein, sodium and phosphorus. It decreases the amount of waste in your body allowing the kidneys to work less. You want to stay away from meat, dairy, nuts, peas and beans. Also, check for the sodium content in things - canned veg, processed products, etc. Crackers are also something to watch.

With cats, you can tell when levels are building up as they vomit, but with rats I'm not sure what telltale signs there are. Mister (my cat) pees and drinks an incredible amount, but doesn't eat as much. Watch her bowel movements as it can cause constipation (nto enough fluids)
 

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