Will they ever get along?

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tulipgirl

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Nov 16, 2013
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I know they probably will, but its been 4 days and i'm already antsy. Cleo (they new young female) and Violet my older 2 yr old female are who I am talking about. I want to put them together again and see what happens (in the bathtubs neutral territory), but the first time ended in a few very bleeding gashes on lil Cleo, and she was shaking for hours after that. Cleo IS sick yet, or myco flare up, TBD on other post I suppose, but they're in the same air anyway so I can't imagine its much different if they'd be together to meet again, but i'm so nervous.. I put cleo in the ball and violet out in the bathtub and after a bit violet wanted to get at cleo so bad in the ball so I ended the 'session'. Today I just switched them into each others cages, switched out bedding and such but didn't sanitize in order to keep each others smells, so I suppose Violet could already get sick, that is why I have been giving her Echinacea along with Cleo. So when should I try to reintroduce with both of them out? I was thinking next weekend maybe, but I don't have a whole lot of time to wait I suppose as I may not have a house for a while starting next month. I would probably bathe each of them and dab vanilla on them here and there when i do re introduce, you'd think Violet would be accepting since she just lost her sister.
 
Or Violet could be grieving and not liking the new rat smell in the home but still, I would continue with intros. Pick a small area, that no rat have been, I like table tops or on a chair. Put them both and a bowl of something yummy. Mine like mashed bananas. Try that for at least 40 minutes. And we'll go from there.
 
jorats said:
Or Violet could be grieving and not liking the new rat smell in the home but still, I would continue with intros. Pick a small area, that no rat have been, I like table tops or on a chair. Put them both and a bowl of something yummy. Mine like mashed bananas. Try that for at least 40 minutes. And we'll go from there.
Click to expand...

Even if she was attacked the first time?

And could be, but it's been a few weeks since Olive has passed and Violet was closer to her normal self. Should I still bathe each and dab vanilla and then intro again?
 
I did it! Success! 15 minutes! Cleo kept grabbing and hopping on Violets tail, and violet didn't bite, she even licked Cleo's head once! I had given them both baths, put vanilla on each, and put them in the tub. YAY! Cleo although is exhibiting odd signs, she was trying to hop on violet, or just hop out of the tub, and was really unsteady, not sure if it was because she was wet and so was the tub, or if it's her illness? She seems sort of unsteady regardless, not falling over or tilting at all, just acting like pinkies do, and she still constantly buries her nose in stuff, the towel shes in now, the bedding newspaper, I don't know what that's about.
 
I will try! Thanks for the suggestion. I don't see her often, she keeps to herself in the castle house, I'm sure she's lonely with no one to play with. I knew i should have gotten a 2nd.
 
Here are a few videos, she moves a lot and seems better tonight not breathing quite as hard, less sounds but still sneezing, itching nose, some guinea pig sounds but not much.

[BBvideo 450,375:2quh8esz]http://s97.photobucket.com/user/devil-n-angel91/media/Video1.mp4.html[/BBvideo:2quh8esz]

[BBvideo 450,375:2quh8esz]http://s97.photobucket.com/user/devil-n-angel91/media/Video.mp4.html[/BBvideo:2quh8esz]

[BBvideo 450,375:2quh8esz]http://s97.photobucket.com/user/devil-n-angel91/media/Video4.mp4.html[/BBvideo:2quh8esz]
 
Well those videos don't show anything abnormal. What's her age again?
Her fur is a little bit pouffy, have you done a mite/lice treatment on her? Does she have small scabs on her back, shoulders?
 
Yeah she looks fine now of course(that always happens!), you can't hear her noises that she still has, but breathing hard is better tonight. She always has had puffy fur, she has a lot of fur on her I noticed. Have not done mite/lice treatment yet, I haven't seen any lice, or symptoms of mites but will probably do that shortly, I just want to fix one thing before i fix others. No scabs anywhere but where her injuries are healing, no itchiness but the nose, ears are clean. I don't know her age. Was not told an age when I got her. I'd say less than 6 months, shes maybe 2" long without tail, weighs 98 grams.
 
I will keep an eye on her, and thanks for the age guess. I haven't checked her out today yet, she pretty much keeps to herself yet, doesn't eat a whole lot. I think i'm used to my piggy girl Violet lol
 
Could you give Cleo some Echinacea? it can sometimes help with mild symptoms of stress.
I believe the cage switch is a good thing to try, sounds like you're doing everything by the book.
My best bet was always putting the kids on my bed (because that's where my kids came for their outings) but if you bring yours on the couch put them there. Put all kinds of interesting things they aren't used to there (paper bags stuffed with newspaper, hidey-houses, shoes, even a Quisinart) to explore - anything you can access them quickly if they have a tiff. Sit in the middle and watch TV and let them hang out & explore (they're pack animals, uncertainty means safety in numbers). Keep treats in your hands, and whenever they meet near you hold the treats so they have to be next to each other to get them - so being close means good things. A few times of that and cage switching every night should (can you keep the cages right next to each other?) should make familiarity & comfort and hopefully a bond.
 
and if they're checking out something together without focusing on each other that's a good time to give treats too.
 
I do give them echinacea! Partly because she was showing some respiratory signs and i didn't want Violet to get sick also, so it killed a few birds with a pill. :p I put them in the bathtub this morning again, didn't bathe, just smeared vanilla, and there was just dominance fighting ! No blood no foul right? Thats the rule? There was no blood, albeit Cleo was a bit freaked out, but no injuries even ! AND @Jorats she is shedding the thick coat now I noticed this morning.

So... timeline was...

Day 1..
no bath, no vanilla, four injuries bleeding on Cleo

day 4 I think it was...
baths & vanilla, no dominance fighting at all, switched cages & new bedding but not cleaned out (for residual smells)

and today which is day.. 7!
vanilla no bath, dominance fighting

Each session lasts 15-20 minutes or so.


Also, not ready to put them on the couch yet, that's 'Violets' thing and I don't want a bloody fight on my couch.
 
Can you find another area that you could try them on, no bath, no vanilla. Like on a chair so it's really tiny and they must deal with each other, also add a yummy food for an initial distraction.
 
Both of them do not care about food distractions when they are with each other. I don't know why. I put Violets LOVED seeds in the tub and she ignores them. I have a papasan chair I can cover with towels and let them roam on it. That also is still neutral territory, no one has been there.
 
If Violet's place is the couch then try the bed. Or you can put a blanket on the couch to change the smell. The reason a couch or bed is better than a papasan chair is to put all kinds of interesting new distractions on it so they are more focused on the unfamiliarity of their surroundings than the unfamiliarity of another rat. As long as they have to check for personal danger in the environment establishing dominance with another ratty comes second. Hopefully while they are checking it out they encounter each other quite a few times seeing the environment as a concern and not each other. It's sleight-of-hand. And perhaps become allies in a strange world. Stress is tiring, so there's a good chance you can get them to go to sleep in a hideyhouse together there if you give it enough time. That's why it's best done in the afternoon which is their preferred sleepy time.
And treats everytime they're close and don't bother each other - if they'll take them. But always offer, f your girls aren't interested in that then you'll know you have a breakthru when they take them!
 
Fidget said:
If Violet's place is the couch then try the bed. Or you can put a blanket on the couch to change the smell. The reason a couch or bed is better than a papasan chair is to put all kinds of interesting new distractions on it so they are more focused on the unfamiliarity of their surroundings than the unfamiliarity of another rat. As long as they have to check for personal danger in the environment establishing dominance with another ratty comes second. Hopefully while they are checking it out they encounter each other quite a few times seeing the environment as a concern and not each other. It's sleight-of-hand. And perhaps become allies in a strange world. Stress is tiring, so there's a good chance you can get them to go to sleep in a hideyhouse together there if you give it enough time. That's why it's best done in the afternoon which is their preferred sleepy time.
And treats everytime they're close and don't bother each other - if they'll take them. But always offer, f your girls aren't interested in that then you'll know you have a breakthru when they take them!
Click to expand...

I ended up putting them on the papasan chair, they did great, were running to the edges smelling and Cleo stuck by me like glue, I must be 'safe', Violet has an injured back leg from the dumb homemade cage i have it has wire bars like 1/4x1/4" and sometimes its not covered as well or she climbs the side and sprains a leg. Should heal quick. The only thing that happened in the papasan chair was power grooming, which i took as a good sign, except violet hissed once or twice but I didn't notice other aggressive things, I finally figured out what a rat hiss sounds like, like louuuuuuud deliberate exhale sorta. So i completely cleaned the 'normal' cage, took out the levels, put both of them in there.. and violet hissed constantly and kept going after Cleo, no blood, but cleo was so freaked out she stuck her head through the top of the cage and just stayed there and didn't want me to take her down. Both girls took treats but did not eat them (while on papasan chair, not in cage). So now Violet is in the normal cage and Cleo is in the homemade large one, it's safer for each to be in those cages. It's only been a week and a bit and they've only met a handful of times, but still I was hoping in the back of my head violet would be like cleos mom, or sister.
 
It sounds promising! If you can, do your intros twice a day. They more they see each other, the more they will get used to each other. Keep them on that chair, seems to be working for them.
Violet's sprain should heal very fast.
 

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